The Dispatch | Expert | Scudo Hub

tee_cee

Member

Registered: 2016-03-18

Posts: 574

ODB2 Extended PIDs

I've been keeping myself busy trying to work out how to display live engine parameters on my 2015 Expert.
Apart from a few basic parameters that have standard PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs there's a whole bunch of proprietary extended PIDs that are not public. There is very little info about this on the net, though I did find some details about a C4 on a Russian website https://www.drive2.com/l/498229676427182085/
From what I can see, unfortunately, these PIDs are not standardised across different engines

As it turns if you have Diagbox, then the data logs can reveal these extended PIds, and you can then load them into the Torque app.

It may be a little niche, but as a start I've documented an overview of the basic process here

https://blue-van.blogspot.com/2020/12/f … -pids.html

vaz2121

Member

From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland

Registered: 2015-08-31

Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

I've been keeping myself busy trying to work out how to display live engine parameters on my 2015 Expert.
Apart from a few basic parameters that have standard PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs there's a whole bunch of proprietary extended PIDs that are not public. There is very little info about this on the net, though I did find some details about a C4 on a Russian website https://www.drive2.com/l/498229676427182085/
From what I can see, unfortunately, these PIDs are not standardised across different engines

As it turns if you have Diagbox, then the data logs can reveal these extended PIds, and you can then load them into the Torque app.

It may be a little niche, but as a start I've documented an overview of the basic process here

https://blue-van.blogspot.com/2020/12/f … -pids.html

This will be very handy for anybody or myself in the future as the need to move onto "newer vans" if I can ever get my head around it .............
{Showing my ignorance}

One thing I need to ask is does this Diagbox need the Lexia OBD thingy.......
And does this work on the cloned china versions............

tee_cee

Member

Registered: 2016-03-18

Posts: 574

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

I've been keeping myself busy trying to work out how to display live engine parameters on my 2015 Expert.
Apart from a few basic parameters that have standard PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs there's a whole bunch of proprietary extended PIDs that are not public. There is very little info about this on the net, though I did find some details about a C4 on a Russian website https://www.drive2.com/l/498229676427182085/
From what I can see, unfortunately, these PIDs are not standardised across different engines

As it turns if you have Diagbox, then the data logs can reveal these extended PIds, and you can then load them into the Torque app.

It may be a little niche, but as a start I've documented an overview of the basic process here

https://blue-van.blogspot.com/2020/12/f … -pids.html

This will be very handy for anybody or myself in the future as the need to move onto "newer vans" if I can ever get my head around it .............
{Showing my ignorance}

One thing I need to ask is does this Diagbox need the Lexia OBD thingy.......
And does this work on the cloned china versions............

Yes, you will need the hardware Lexia to connect (they are all Chinese closes). The software (diagbox) can be a right pain to install - base install then a lot of upgrades, though I do see some people on ebay selling what looks like a single install.
It's fine for tinkering with options, like door locking, and reading fault codes. However a laptop is not really practical for live data.

Having this on the dash is much better I think.

vaz2121

Member

From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland

Registered: 2015-08-31

Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

I can't deny your thought of monitoring Live data in front of you rather than laptop..........
If you have that facility .......

I'm curious to the 4 parameters that you are showing in your pic ..........

The bottom two..... I'd say easy to pick out as DPF (FAP) ........
the other two not So.............
The first especially ...... The Temp has me flummoxed entirely ..............

The Highest value= 296C    Lowest 100C ..............
That is to hot for engine cooling ...........
And to low to Burn off soot in a DPF even with the aid of injected FAP fluid I beleive 450C is necessary ...........

All this before I decide what pressure is being monitored ............
{Again it may be DPF But Millibar seems to me to not be enough Differential Pressure for that}  ..............
{I Could so easily be wrong about it all}

tee_cee

Member

Registered: 2016-03-18

Posts: 574

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

At the moment I need to watch what's happening with the DPF - and will post on separate thread shortly.

So I'm monitoring
Exhaust temperature, which is normally 150 to 250, rising to 450+ when regenerating.   
Differential pressure across the the DPF, which is 1 or 2 when idle and 100+ under load, when clean.
Calculated soot g/litre
Last time the regen was run

vaz2121

Member

From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland

Registered: 2015-08-31

Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

I think I'm getting my head around those readings............
With the advent of that 307HDI Rapier that gave us..... Me so much grief........... It was then I'm sure I found out that the FAP fluid helped bring down soot burning to a minimum requirement of 450C .........
usually a need to reach 6 or 700C .............

Hence don't force re-gen on grass or stationary on tar .......ETC

Since then I belive there's been a caveat that after a certain Vin number a different FAP fluid is required and I 'm also Led to believe that cars (it was a C4 that was being discussed in amongst AdBlue requirements of a truck) of a certain age would require AdBlue also possibly as well as (C4) FAP fluid..........
I have No Idea if this is relevant to commercial vehicles/Vans

tee_cee

Member

Registered: 2016-03-18

Posts: 574

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

I think I'm getting my head around those readings............
With the advent of that 307HDI Rapier that gave us..... Me so much grief........... It was then I'm sure I found out that the FAP fluid helped bring down soot burning to a minimum requirement of 450C .........
usually a need to reach 6 or 700C .............

Hence don't force re-gen on grass or stationary on tar .......ETC

Since then I belive there's been a caveat that after a certain Vin number a different FAP fluid is required and I 'm also Led to believe that cars (it was a C4 that was being discussed in amongst AdBlue requirements of a truck) of a certain age would require AdBlue also possibly as well as (C4) FAP fluid..........
I have No Idea if this is relevant to commercial vehicles/Vans

Never mind forcing a regen, I've seen temperature readings of over 600 during an normal active regen. Beats the hell out of me why the manufacturers didn't think that customers might want to know that this is going on. Seems like it would have been sensible to alert the customer that a regen is scheduled, and allow them to actually kick it off.
To help, I've wired an led up to the mirror heating wire, so that I can see when the regen is starting (the ECU cuts in a bunch of electrical loads, to get the engine working harder, to help raise the temperatures)

yes you are right the original eolys was replaced with eolys powerflex, which needs a lot less fluid, about 4ml per 80L fill. This means that the fluid should last 150k+ miles instead of 75k, not that anyone will actually confirm this.

vaz2121

Member

From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland

Registered: 2015-08-31

Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

Beats the hell out of me why the manufacturers didn't think that customers might want to know that this is going on.

I find that quite surprising.....
Is this the norm for a PSA vehicle or is it something that's part of your issue/consequence leading too..... or something on this age of van ..............

Of Course you'd want to know especially with using a commercial vehicle and relying on it's earning ability ..................

A couple of acquaintances decided to go with diesels fitted with DPF's ...........
The first with a Vauxhall as a mobility Car and was warned by the dealer a Diesel may not be the car for him but he went ahead anyway even on collection there was a warning tag on car about the dangers of clogging the DPF............
The other a VW Caddy in fact ..... He's on His second Caddy this being a 1.6L TDI High output which he thinks is a better overall van than the 2.0L TDI High output of the first Van ..........Although I think his issue were self-inflicted Via chipping for more power ETC .................

But my point is those vehicles showed that Re-gen was under way that either of them told me they would go around By-pass or hold it in third to keep revs up until   job was done and not Park/switch off...........
Obviously from this best outcome was that of the GM diesel, That has up to now to the best of my knowledge although the stop-start went flaky had No DPF issues ..............

Come to think of it other than a Antipollution warning on the 307.......I don't remember anything else information wise ..........

tee_cee

Member

Registered: 2016-03-18

Posts: 574

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

Reading stories from other DPF afflicted drivers, I assumed that this was the general approach by the manufacturers ie no indicators.
I have seen suggestions that people can tell by changes in engine tone or fuel consumption.

vaz2121

Member

From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland

Registered: 2015-08-31

Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

As Luck would have it........ I saw the young guy (39) with the Caddy today......

His van indeed had a light on dash but this  apparently means that a passive re-gen failed and you should go do another an active re-gen...........
So it appears I've picked up on all this incorrectly ........ I've still to figure out how they know when it's on a re-gen then .... Unlees their all failed passive ones and their going for active re-gen .............

I have heard during MOT tests/plating tests and Ministry checks especially on Lorries with the facility .....  To fit a obd dongle and their able to detect foul play we'll call it when the software has been fiddled with to inject less Adblue .........
This to me has somewhat defeated the purpose when their removing the DPF to wash out with the steam cleaner / pressure washer fairly regularly I assume it'll detect if chipping takes it outside rules same as I've heard it's illegal to remove DPF and software to use vehicle and these dongles can detect all this ......apparently..........

Back in the day it was all down to finding out the formula of how much Fullers earth/Cat Litter you needed to strain red diesel through to take colour out of it ............
Lots of engine damage ensued as fuel fillters wern't coping ......... Long stories.......
Apparently it's just another check needing doing and more time & money to combat the high jinx............

Still this is not tackling yours..... Is this a case of to much fuel and not enough air hence the black smoke under load ? ..............
Maf Giving incorrect reading ................

tee_cee

Member

Registered: 2016-03-18

Posts: 574

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

Well I'm in the final throws of getting my van back on the road, and will update on the other thread. Interesting that you mention red diesel though.
Passive regen is a continuous process as opposed to active, which is enabled and runs for maybe 20 minutes. So if the passive regen is not performing well, then eventually the DPF will clog up. Hence the "Italian tuneup" advice that is prevalent on all the forums. I can see the effect of passive burning of soot when the exhaust temperature rises on the motorway - the calculated soot value slows or reduces slightly. So overall it will reduce the need for an active regen.