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#1 2021-11-08 18:12:19

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

I'm away in Czech Republic at the moment. Before I went away I noticed that the gearbox on my 2.0 Jtd 2004 was weeping. Nothing on ground, but bit wet under box/diff. Seems to be coming from where o/s driveshaft comes out of box/diff. I put in extra half litre of oil before I left and drove 1100 miles without problem.

It seems slightly worse this end as there was a little gearbox oil on ground after it had been parked for a few days. So I need to top it up before I do the return trip in 3 weeks. I will put some more oil in to last the journey - hopefully! The oil spec is 75W80. Would it be better to put a slightly thicker oil in for the journey, then change it when seal replaced back in UK? My thinking is thicker oil won't escape so easily. Or will thicker oil be bad for the box?

It's a right pain with the 2.0 as there's no level plug on the side, so I'm just guessing how much is in there, and how much I need to replace what's been lost. Rubbish design!

Anyway, thanks for any advice.


Fiat Scudo 2004 (54) 2.0 Jtd SX Dynamic Van

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#2 2021-11-08 19:15:21

kenbw2
Administrator
From: Preston
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 1,265

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Dammit, it would choose your trip away to do it wouldn't it  neutral

I can't speak for if it's gonna do any harm, but I know I tried that with my old DW8 engine that was leaking out of the crankshaft seal and it leaked... less. So it worked I suppose


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#3 2021-11-08 19:18:43

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,114

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

As for filling the box is it not like a RWD Diff where you fill till it dribbles out the fill hole?

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#4 2021-11-09 04:29:21

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 250

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

I filled mine from the breather hole for ease of access, but there is an obstruction inside the hole that stops you measuring the level.  I'd put a cups worth in every week or two.  You could also try a thicker oil, but it might make it a bit harder to change into gears.  What sort of grade were you thinking of using?


Peugeot Expert 2006 2.0 Hdi 110 RHZ / DW10BTED+ 5 Speed Manual

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#5 2021-11-09 09:16:07

scotchjoe
Member
From: Northern Ireland
Registered: 2020-01-08
Posts: 105

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Why not try a stop oil leak additive for your gearbox?
https://uk.bestreviews.guide/oil-leak-additives

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#6 2021-11-17 17:28:35

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Casper wrote:

As for filling the box is it not like a RWD Diff where you fill till it dribbles out the fill hole?

Thanks Casper. Unfortunately the 2.0 doesn't appear to have a level plug. I believe the 1.9s with different gearbox do have one. It's stupid design, because if you need to top up, you should drain the oil out first, then put in the correct capacity - 1.85 litres.


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#7 2021-11-17 17:33:44

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Pathfinder100 wrote:

I filled mine from the breather hole for ease of access, but there is an obstruction inside the hole that stops you measuring the level.  I'd put a cups worth in every week or two.  You could also try a thicker oil, but it might make it a bit harder to change into gears.  What sort of grade were you thinking of using?

Thanks for your reply, Pathfinder. Not really too worried about gearchange, as long as I can get back without a dry and wrecked gearbox. I was thinking about next grade up from the spec'd 75W80. Think it might be 80W85 0r 85W90. Not looked into different grades.


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#8 2021-11-17 17:40:54

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

scotchjoe wrote:

Why not try a stop oil leak additive for your gearbox?
https://uk.bestreviews.guide/oil-leak-additives

Thanks, that's a great idea, Joe. If I have to put something in box, it might as well be something that swells the seals a bit. Hopefully will last the journey to UK so I can get it fixed. Will have a look to see what additives are available in CZ.


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#9 2021-11-17 17:43:48

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Apologies for all for late/sporadic replies. Relying on pubs and cafes for internet connection for my laptop. Thanks for all help, really appreciated.


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#10 2021-11-17 23:14:24

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 250

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

If you have Amazon capability, you could try the Liqui Moly Gearbox Sealant.  i searched for the Mannol equivalent, given the fact its made in Germany, but the liqui moly stuff came up instead.  Go figure.  but that might be

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Liqui-Moly-P … ive&sr=1-1

Gearbox oil wise, all I could find above 75w80 was 80w90 in Europe.  It seems 80w85 is available, but mainly seems to be used by the American market.

https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Mannol-Unive … ive&sr=1-3

In reality i don't think you will have any problems finding either product locally, if you are in a big town or city.  In more rural locations, it might be better to try and order online.  But I havent been to the Czech Republic.


Peugeot Expert 2006 2.0 Hdi 110 RHZ / DW10BTED+ 5 Speed Manual

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#11 2021-11-18 02:51:34

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,311

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Many many moons ago I added some stop leak additive to the oil in the diff off my Lada .................
At first I thought it didn't work ... As the back of car still got oily spotty bits...............
Then the first time I drove it up the motorway to Scotland  from aylesford [kent where I was working] it sealed it's self up...........
No more spotty marks on back after I'd washed car since that trip.............
[It couldn't have been getting hot enough ... long enough]...................

I still have that Lada and still oily spotty clear and it's got to be 20 years since I added that stuff...............


I have to admit it hasn't been used in anger to chase a rally in D&G for about 7 or 8 years ................

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#12 2021-11-25 18:53:59

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Thanks again for your replies. Will try and source some gearbox stop leak in a car parts shop here and give it a go. It's a real gamble trying to guess how much I'm losing without a level plug. It's not dripping onto ground, but as I understand it, driveshaft leaks tend to throw the oil around when driving and not drip when stationery - like an engine oil leak would do. So it could be deceptive as you don't see oil on the ground where you park, so think you're not losing much. If I wipe the oil off bottom of bell housing before a drive, there's some more on there after a drive.

If all goes wrong, I'll be after a new gearbox!     sad

Last edited by woodbine (2021-11-25 18:55:02)


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#13 2021-11-25 19:11:26

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,114

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

woodbine wrote:

Thanks again for your replies. Will try and source some gearbox stop leak in a car parts shop here and give it a go. It's a real gamble trying to guess how much I'm losing without a level plug. It's not dripping onto ground, but as I understand it, driveshaft leaks tend to throw the oil around when driving and not drip when stationery - like an engine oil leak would do. So it could be deceptive as you don't see oil on the ground where you park, so think you're not losing much. If I wipe the oil off bottom of bell housing before a drive, there's some more on there after a drive.

If all goes wrong, I'll be after a new gearbox!     sad


How is the engine oil? Reason i ask if all you have is a wet patch after a drive it could also be the crank shaft oil seal as that will drip from the bellhousing. It could also explain first gear judder when taking up drive. TW try not to be dripping oil in Germany. Your motor can be impounded

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#14 2021-11-26 09:03:08

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,311

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Casper makes a good point there  most FWD gearboxes fill to about driveshaft level on diff .............

I did some googling for G/box without a level plug and came up with ...

Inside LH wheel arch there is a level plug on the gearbox end casing.
The plug is noticably different from the other bolts found here and its got a seal washer under the head.
Wipe clean the area, unscrew the plug and notice eaxcvtly WHEN the oil starts dripping out when filling.
At the onset of dripping oil level is exactly correct.

This relates to a Xantia your van IIRC should have a ML5C fitted not sure what end of box looks like behind N/S wheel as mine has a Be4r box fitted [Has a DW8 in it]... The principle should be the same ...............

Also IIRC a similar question answered here it may be worth a look ...............
https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/foru … php?id=918

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#15 2021-11-26 13:18:24

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 250

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

On the 2.0 its in a royal pain in the ass place to get to.  I looked at it for refilling when i dropped my gearbox oil, but decided after reading some advice on a different forum to use the breather hole which is really easy to get to (remove the air filter box).  Obviously if topping up you won't have the luxury of just dumping fluid in to the top, willy nilly.  I couldn't work out how to get a wrench up to it with any ease.  YMMV.


Peugeot Expert 2006 2.0 Hdi 110 RHZ / DW10BTED+ 5 Speed Manual

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#16 2021-11-27 12:54:32

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Thanks again for all your help. To answer Casper's point, it's definitely gearbox oil. The engine oil is almost due a change so is a bit dark. The stuff on the bell housing is clean and smells of gearbox oil. Also, the engine never loses any oil, I never need to add any between changes. The crankshaft seal was replaced as a precaution when clutch done at beginning of year.

I always thought there wasn't a level plug, but maybe because it sounds difficult to get to some have never found it. Will have a look. In the end it may come down to guesstimating how much is coming out and topping up on the long journey home. Anyway, a recon box can't be that much!    yikes

Not returning for at least a couple of weeks. Going to have a look in the local motor factors for a leak stop additive. That will test my very basic Czech language skills.

Last edited by woodbine (2021-11-27 12:57:54)


Fiat Scudo 2004 (54) 2.0 Jtd SX Dynamic Van

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#17 2021-11-28 07:21:20

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 250

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Just be aware that apparently some models don't have a fill hole, because the gearbox oil is supposed to be for life.

I believe this 407 picture is the same gearbox as mine and probably similar to the box on most 2.0 variants. The drain plug is at the back under the gearbox (square drive) and you fill from the breather hole.

mini_2010-04-18_111008_Peugeot_407_HDi.jpg

I tried looking for the guide I used when i did mine, but no joy.  It may even have been on one of JohnDragonMan's videos on YT.


Peugeot Expert 2006 2.0 Hdi 110 RHZ / DW10BTED+ 5 Speed Manual

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#18 2021-11-29 17:24:39

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Thanks again, Pathfinder. Have found a motor factor in town who sells the Liqui Moly for leaks. Will put in a bottle, keep an eye on what's coming out, and cross fingers all the way home in mid Dec.

https://www.autokelly.cz/Product/LQ-5199/11962544


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#19 2021-12-19 13:21:37

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Well, I bought a bottle of leak stopper in CZ and added the correct amount. Now driven 800 miles on it to France, and it's leaking just as bad. I think these magic potions are supposed to be preventative rather than to repair a failed seal. I think I must be losing a fair bit at the mileages I've been doing. Looks like it's coming out of the o/s driveshaft seal from diff. Wiped the oil off lowest part of bell housing with a rag, drove at 60 MPH for half an hour, then wiped it again and in that time the area was wet again.

I'm going to nurse it home to Calais, then over Channel to Dover > Bristol. I've been topping up with approx 200ml of oil every 200 miles. Seems to be successful so will do another top up after crossing Channel. Should get me home. Could be doing more harm than good, not knowing how much oil is in the box. If I'm overfilling it, the increased internal pressure will be pushing more oil past the faulty seal. Just have to make sure I keep enough oil in there to protect it. New seal(s) for Xmas.


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#20 2021-12-19 23:28:33

kenbw2
Administrator
From: Preston
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 1,265

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

217e003b77bef5ac0984394d9afa631d9960a6df0e009cb4ac36c0a5c164f4d5_1.jpg


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#21 2021-12-19 23:48:26

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

smile

True Ken. Spending almost as much on oil and leak stop as diesel. Least my engine doesn't leak or burn a drop of oil. Never needs topping up between changes. Not bad for a 100K engine.

Will be a bad day when I eventually have to chop the old girl in for an updated shitbox. Served me well in the 14 years since I bought her. Best £6K I ever spent. Cheap motoring.

Last edited by woodbine (2021-12-19 23:52:17)


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#22 2021-12-24 14:06:06

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Made it home without any disasters or ominous noises from the gearbox. I added small amounts of oil every couple of hundred miles, may well have overfilled a bit but better that way than too low and damaging box. Just hope any excess oil hasn't caused problems with other seals.

Booked in with garage for 10th Jan, not realy using it much until then so no problem just to do a few local journeys. Apart from leak, van did really well for a 17 year old doing 2500 mile round trip. Was clean when I went away start of Nov, but now covered in really bad layer of road grime that you get from driving thousands of miles on motorways, autobahns, etc, etc in all weathers. Worst is all the lorries thowing up dirty spray, and boy were there some lorries on the continent! If we're short of drivers they must all be over there. Never seen so many lorries on motorways and big lorry parks by side of motorways full up at night. Anyway, quick visit to the local jet wash will get it shining again.

Last edited by woodbine (2021-12-24 14:12:16)


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#23 2022-02-15 13:51:29

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

Update & Questions

The garage I took it to to diagnose gearbox leak said he couldn't see where oil was coming from. Said definitely not driveshaft seals, and guessed at input shaft. He couldn't split the engine and box because only has 4 post lift and works alone.

Booked in tomorrow for gearbox specialist in Bristol. When I had the clutch, DMF replaced a year ago they also replaced the clutch guide tube. Is it possible they botched the fitting of the tube? Are they difficult/tricky to fit?

Another guess at the cause if it's the input shaft - is it possible that when they changed the clutch they let the weight of the box hang on the input shaft and bent it? Would this cause leaks? Would I get other symptoms?

Any advice appreciated as this is going on a bit.

Last edited by woodbine (2022-02-15 13:53:22)


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#24 2022-02-16 18:21:15

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 903

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

I think if they had bent the shaft you would have noticed vibration right from it being done. 
They may have nicked the seal though causing it to eventually leak.

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#25 2022-02-18 14:53:50

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 233

Re: Gearbox Leak - 1100 Miles From Home

OAT wrote:

I think if they had bent the shaft you would have noticed vibration right from it being done. 
They may have nicked the seal though causing it to eventually leak.

You may well be right. Left it with the gearbox specialist. They confirmed leaking from inside bell housing and some wear/play in change/selector mechanism on top of box. They're going to remove box - which unfortunately also entails removal of subframe. Said they will do a full inspection of box and likely a box re-seal - whatever that is. I did ask about bent input shaft, but they said impossible on these because of the way the bolts are the weight of box can't be hung on shaft.

When they were removing the suspension, subframe, etc - they said a broken coil spring flew out. Said it was rusty on the break so boken some time. Sounds about right. The one on the other side broke over night a few years ago, slid down the strut and locked up the tyre/steering. More money!


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