Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

RegW · 2024-06-23 23:35:41

One quick test that comes to mind if the speedo packed in
would be to whip the clocks out
( I'm surprised how easily mine came out)
and monitor pin 9
I often use an led with a 1K series resistor to check for 12v or low voltages
I can patch it between a connector/pin and ground then drive/ride with both hands
free whilst just a glance at the led tells me if a circuit is working or not.
I've used it to check things like if a thermo rad switch was activating on a bike
or not

If the led goes on/off the problem is in the clocks
if the led doesn't flash the problem is in the wiring or sender
It seems better/quicker way to get to a fault than grovelling around under the van if you dont have to

woodbine · 2024-06-25 11:13:52

Yes, that's the problem I have. Access is very difficult without it up on a 2 poster. Then there's the loss of geabox oil each time it's removed.

I may soon be back to you for more details on how to do the pin 9 test, such as exactly which LED/resistor I would need and where to source, how to find pin 9, how to attach LED, etc, etc. I'm not really knowlegeable on these things.

I seem to remember clock removal being a bit of a pain when I replaced some of the small bulbs that illuminated the dials few years ago. Having to remove lower dash panels, trying to reach that odd trumpet screw under left side of binnacle.

I'm thinking it's not the clocks that are at fault. This is because at the same time as the speedo, odometer and trip stopped working, I started getting slight rough running/hesitancy in lower gears at lower speeds. Also I think my MPG dropped. This leads me to think that the ECU isn't getting the correct info to run engine properly.

Last edited by woodbine (2024-06-25 11:52:11)

RegW · 2024-06-25 12:46:09

Quote:
"I'm thinking it's not the clocks that are at fault. This is because at the same time as the speedo, odometer and trip stopped working, I started getting slight rough running/hesitancy in lower gears at lower speeds. Also I think my MPG dropped. This leads me to think that the ECU isn't getting the correct info to run engine properly."

That sounds quite plausible to me, why else take a feed off the speedo cable?
I'll try and find out what pin/cable colour is use on the engine management unit as that would probably be easier to access

did you swap over sender units?

woodbine · 2024-06-25 15:38:41

RegW wrote:

Quote:did you swap over sender units?

I have temporarily fitted the new Febi one without the gear shaft so I can still drive the van and have the original to inspect. The photos below show the original shaft has no square hole in the end of it and other photo shows there's no square drive up inside the hole of sensor - though that photo isn't so clear.

woodbine · 2024-06-25 15:40:32

This is what it looks like inside the wrong Febi part, with a square drive up inside.

RegW · 2024-06-25 15:53:23

I know this is a massive ballache for you
having what should be a simple job made such a PITA

But I'm still wondering what drives/drove the pulser?
your shaft has no inner plastic looking insert as per my previous pic and your sender doesn't seem to have a square drive
so how did it work?

I'll hazard some guesses:
The insert broke away and is stuck inside the pulser thereby concealing it
or bits fell off as it was removed?
You may need a new shaft as well if this the case but I'd rebuild it with epoxy
cos I'm a cheap bastard and hate to spend when I can fix it myself

It may be my imagination but there seems to be an echo of a square in the pic of the end your shaft
is that original material or gunk stuck in there?
try picking it out and see what you find

Last edited by RegW (2024-06-25 15:55:44)

RegW · 2024-06-25 16:00:42

FYI
this place sells a new shaft for 65 PLN or £12.76

http://iveco-ducato.com/make.asp?t=5&br … NIK%C3%93W

woodbine · 2024-06-25 16:46:00

RegW wrote:

I know this is a massive ballache for you
having what should be a simple job made such a PITA
But I'm still wondering what drives/drove the pulser?
your shaft has no inner plastic looking insert as per my previous pic and your sender doesn't seem to have a square drive
so how did it work?
I'll hazard some guesses:
The insert broke away and is stuck inside the pulser thereby concealing it
or bits fell off as it was removed?
You may need a new shaft as well if this the case but I'd rebuild it with epoxy
cos I'm a cheap bastard and hate to spend when I can fix it myself
It may be my imagination but there seems to be an echo of a square in the pic of the end your shaft
is that original material or gunk stuck in there?
try picking it out and see what you find

Thanks again. Yes, this is taking a stupid amount of my time. I tried picking at the end of the shaft with a sharp pointed bradawl. The slight recess in the end seems to be metallic if i scratch it. I'm wondering if there are magnets in the shaft because it's poss hollow with something inside. I do see the echo of a square in end of shaft that you are seeing. I will have a good look and prod up inside sensor hole as apart from a quick look, I haven't really investigated that too much. Maybe there is a piece up inside.

The garage owner of the rent a ramp place seemed to think it was normal that it just spins, he did decscribe a name for how it works but I forgot.

woodbine · 2024-06-25 16:49:21

RegW wrote:

FYI
this place sells a new shaft for 65 PLN or £12.76
http://iveco-ducato.com/make.asp?t=5&br … NIK%C3%93W

Had a look at the shaft in the link. Though it is the same part number, it is different from mine as mine has a recess in end of shaft - one in photo has what look like a raised plastic insert.

I'll have a good look up inside the sensor hole in case maybe there's something stuck up there.

RegW · 2024-06-25 16:54:51

Magnetic induction/hall effect probably
yeah, but no, I dont buy that.
Possible, but my moneys on PSA using a cheap, tried and tested device
they have warehouses full of that eventually fell apart after 20 years of use
Why go to the cost of developing a unique, more costly and complex device?

Last edited by RegW (2024-06-25 16:57:07)

RegW · 2024-06-25 17:23:37

It seem an awful expenditure of time and money renting a ramp
in Cheltenham.
If its the Alstone lane place, that's 40 miles from me in Fishponds
so 2 hours of driving and 2 gallons of deisel plus ramp rental
I'd just get my guy around the corner to do it and it would cost
me £40 for an hours labour.

woodbine · 2024-06-25 23:15:07

RegW wrote:

It seem an awful expenditure of time and money renting a ramp
in Cheltenham.
If its the Alstone lane place, that's 40 miles from me in Fishponds
so 2 hours of driving and 2 gallons of deisel plus ramp rental
I'd just get my guy around the corner to do it and it would cost
me £40 for an hours labour.

Yes, tell me about it. The way it's going, would have been cheaper just to hand it over to main dealer and tell them to get on with it. Yes, the one in Alstone. Do you have a reliable garage? I'm always on the lookout for reliable places. Do as much as I can myself. Have used Renatec by the park in Brislington on Bath Rd, but they got unreliable in the end.

Can't speak highly enough of Gloucester Rd Gearboxes. I had a leaking box and selection problems (was tricky to get into first and second) and the main crank seal behind flywheel was weeping when they opened it all up. Resealed the box and did all the other things. Been perfect since, gearbox good as new. Put new genuine set of cables on it myself. They've also done one or two not strictly gearbox jobs for me when I've been short of time.

Anyway, I'm committed (at least I may be committed after this episode sad ). Had a look inside old sensor to see if anything had snapped off end of shaft and was stuck up inside. Could see something up inside and could move it a bit with a small screwdriver. Tried everything to get it out, in the end I cut open the sensor. There definitely isn't a square drive or piece that would fit around a square drive in there. There is a small wheel in there that spins and has a plastic pin on it in middle that just makes contact with the end of the shaft. Nothing definite to lock end of shaft to the wheel. Must just be pressure. Will try to post up pics. The shaft turns this wheel that has lines on the back that are picked up by something on the back of the 3 electrical pins to give pulses.

So that's it, the way the gear shaft looks on the end is how it should be. Nothing broken off. No square drive. I was never going to be able to fit that shaft up inside the new sensor. I don't understand because all reference online points to sensors and shafts with square drives - which mine don't have. Maybe I can just get one of those new shafts with square hole in end and fit it to my new Febi sensor. I need a lie down!!!

Last edited by woodbine (2024-06-25 23:35:33)

woodbine · 2024-06-28 15:26:41

Doing some more reading on the subject, it looks like the gear in the diff that drives the sensor gear shaft can become detached. One thing I didn't check. Suppose when I go back to finish sensor job, I should put my finger in the hole in diff and see if all is well? Bit like a prostate examination at the quack's. yikes

Last edited by woodbine (2024-06-29 00:21:48)

RegW · 2024-06-28 16:40:22

I'd be careful about sticking your finger in a hole where it may get trapped in gears.
I'd lift the nearest wheel and use a mirror/torch sort of thing to see if the gear turns whilst the wheel is
being turned.
I'm still not convinced the sender drive shaft is supposed to be friction driven.
Never seen that and even if it was true it would prone to all sorts of potential errors and faults.

Last edited by RegW (2024-06-28 16:42:38)

woodbine · 2024-06-29 00:15:27

RegW wrote:

I'd be careful about sticking your finger in a hole where it may get trapped in gears.
I'd lift the nearest wheel and use a mirror/torch sort of thing to see if the gear turns whilst the wheel is
being turned.
I'm still not convinced the sender drive shaft is supposed to be friction driven.
Never seen that and even if it was true it would prone to all sorts of potential errors and faults.

Not sure I would get my head up there and be able to see into hole, even with mirror. There are crossmembers or parts of subframe running directly below the sensor hole/diff, and the hole itself is angled upwards. Wouldn't do it with engine running, just see if the gear is secure on it's shaft with finger and has no sideways movement. Hoping it's not that, as the gearbox was out and apart only 18 months ago. Still, would give me a chance to put a new subframe in if it has to come out again. smile I'm guessing the diff and gearbox have to come out as one unit.

Ordered a new, genuine gear shaft for sensor today, so will get the new sensor and shaft fitted. As sensor has square drive and new shaft has square hole, it should be a match made in heaven! Then hopefully all systems go. Unless any problems with gear inside diff. Or any other problems. sad

I'll be back!

Last edited by woodbine (2024-06-29 00:20:11)

woodbine · 2024-08-04 11:21:33

Update>>>>

Recently I ordered the correct shaft with gear on end that fits into the new speed sensor from company in Italy. It has the corrrect square hole in the end that fits the square drive up inside the new Febi sensor. Yesterday I went back for the third time to the rent a a ramp place in Cheltenham and fitted the new sensor and it's new shaft and topped up the gearbox oil with the same quantity that came out while old sensor was removed from hole in diff. Went without a hitch and that's how it could have gone on day one, if the manufacturers hadn't slightly altered a part that you don't find out about until you pull things apart and oil is draining out.

What gets me, is after extensive Googling, I can find no reference to there being any changes to this part or alternatives being available.

What with the fiasco recently with the cv boot (I gave that a good inspection too while up on the ramp and can report that boot number 7 is still in place and fastened) which is quite a basic job, plus a seemingly routine sensor swap, this van has certainly tried my patience. Still, it's been completely reliable over my 17 years of ownership, so not bad overall.

Having to drive from Bristol to Cheltenham to the rent-a-ramp place and pay to use ramp each time - probably would have been cheaper to take it to main stealer and get them to replace sensor. But once you start, you're committed (or perhaps I should be after this!). You live and learn!

As I was fitting the sensor, I still had the nagging doubt that after all this, it still might be something else at fault. However, as I drove away from the ramp garage, the speedo needle came to life to my great relief. For the first time since March, I now have a working speedo, odometer and trip meter. The slight hesitancy/jerkiness in low gears at lower speeds has now disappeared and engine runs perfectly as I assume the ECU is now getting some info from the new working sensor that it needs. I'm hoping my MPG will now go back up a bit as it seemed to drop since the sensor went out.

I now can claim to be an expert on Scudo/Expert/Dispatch speed sensors. cool

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice. Until the next time.................

Last edited by woodbine (2024-08-04 11:24:57)

Casper · 2024-08-05 01:18:02

If this happened when you pressed the trip reset button then would the issue not be a stuck press switch? Either your push button or the pressure pad on the clocks circuit board??

OAT · 2024-08-05 17:49:56

The parts situation with these vans is ridiculous. One of the reasons my local garage won't do the subframe is they expect it won't be the right one when it comes and they would be a ramp down with my van in bits till they found the correct one.

RegW wrote:

I'd be careful about sticking your finger in a hole where it may get trapped in gears.

After once adjusting the primary drive on a Bonnie, I replaced the outer case and started it up. It still sounded sloppy so as the inspection plug was still off I though I would test the tension.
I realised my mistake just as my finger brushed the chain and managed to get it out intact.

woodbine · 2024-08-18 15:22:02

Casper wrote:

If this happened when you pressed the trip reset button then would the issue not be a stuck press switch? Either your push button or the pressure pad on the clocks circuit board??

I didn't touch the trip button. I was just driving down the motorway - one minute my speedo was working, the next it wasn't.

The Speed sensor has at least four functions as far as I can make out. It runs speedo, odometer, trip and sends speed info to the ECU so it can adjust fuelling, etc settings so engine runs properly. I had no speedo, odometer or trip and my engine wasn't running quite right.

If I had just pressed the trip button and it was only the trip that stopped working, you might have been right.

woodbine · 2024-08-18 15:30:45

OAT wrote:

The parts situation with these vans is ridiculous. One of the reasons my local garage won't do the subframe is they expect it won't be the right one when it comes and they would be a ramp down with my van in bits till they found the correct one.

That's easy. Getting the correct frame is just a case of ordering for the correct year. 2002 onwards vans have different sized holes at end of frame arms and slightly different torque rod bracket. See Ebay for different subframes.

Last edited by woodbine (2024-08-18 15:34:24)

kenbw2 · 2024-08-18 17:23:46

woodbine wrote:

OAT wrote:
The parts situation with these vans is ridiculous. One of the reasons my local garage won't do the subframe is they expect it won't be the right one when it comes and they would be a ramp down with my van in bits till they found the correct one.
That's easy. Getting the correct frame is just a case of ordering for the correct year. 2002 onwards vans have different sized holes at end of frame arms and slightly different torque rod bracket. See Ebay for different subframes.

That's Mk2 vans, right?

I know when I had a peruse ages ago for Mk1s there's like 6 different ones, with different bends in the middle etc etc

I assume because the Mk1 came with... Petrol, XUD, XUD Turbo, DW8, 1.6HDi, 2.0HDi... 6 different engines

woodbine · 2024-08-21 15:23:52

kenbw2 wrote:

woodbine wrote:
OAT wrote:
The parts situation with these vans is ridiculous. One of the reasons my local garage won't do the subframe is they expect it won't be the right one when it comes and they would be a ramp down with my van in bits till they found the correct one.
That's easy. Getting the correct frame is just a case of ordering for the correct year. 2002 onwards vans have different sized holes at end of frame arms and slightly different torque rod bracket. See Ebay for different subframes.
That's Mk2 vans, right?
I know when I had a peruse ages ago for Mk1s there's like 6 different ones, with different bends in the middle etc etc
I assume because the Mk1 came with... Petrol, XUD, XUD Turbo, DW8, 1.6HDi, 2.0HDi... 6 different engines

What are you referring to as a Mk2? Do you mean basically same as Mk1 but facelifted and made up until 2006, or totally new van produced after 2006?

It appeared from my images that anything pre 2001 has same size mounting holes and anything 2002 to 2006 had different size holes. If you're saying the earliest vans had 6 different variations again then I didn't know that. Sounds a nightmare. How does anyone get the right frame? Are new ones all still available?

Last edited by woodbine (2024-08-21 15:24:47)

kenbw2 · 2024-08-22 02:26:56

Everything I see calls the 2002-2006 a facelift, with Mk2 being the post-2007 model

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#26 2024-06-23 23:35:41

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#27 2024-06-25 11:13:52

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#28 2024-06-25 12:46:09

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#29 2024-06-25 15:38:41

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#30 2024-06-25 15:40:32

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#31 2024-06-25 15:53:23

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#32 2024-06-25 16:00:42

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#33 2024-06-25 16:46:00

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#34 2024-06-25 16:49:21

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#35 2024-06-25 16:54:51

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#36 2024-06-25 17:23:37

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#37 2024-06-25 23:15:07

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#38 2024-06-28 15:26:41

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#39 2024-06-28 16:40:22

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#40 2024-06-29 00:15:27

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#41 2024-08-04 11:21:33

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#42 2024-08-05 01:18:02

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#43 2024-08-05 17:49:56

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#44 2024-08-18 15:22:02

Re: Speedo, Odometer & trip Meter Stopped Working.

#45 2024-08-18 15:30:45

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#46 2024-08-18 17:23:46

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#47 2024-08-21 15:23:52

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#48 2024-08-22 02:26:56

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