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#26 2020-02-19 02:15:48

steve the grease
Member
Registered: 2018-05-20
Posts: 82

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

OAT wrote:
badrobot wrote:

As far as I am aware you're allowed to run a 2500ltrs SVO before tax?

I believe there is apparently such a limit but can't see how they could ever police it.

EDIT

On trying to look this up I find as much miss-information as fact.  Par for the course on the net!

This seems to be the root of the issue though :-

2.3 Fuel that can be legally used in petrol or diesel engine road vehicles
Apart from the circumstances described in this paragraph you must always use duty paid fuel. This would normally be petrol or diesel sold as road fuel from a fuel retailers.

Certain biodiesel and fuel substitute producers and users, who meet the definition of ‘exempt producers’, can use limited amounts of fuel upon which duty has not been paid. For more details see section 4 of Notice 179E Biofuels and other fuel substitutes.

Biofuels and fuel substitutes are alternative fuels, they include:

biodiesel
bioethanol
refuse-derived fuel
non-fossil methane
vegetable oil
propane
other biomass sources

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/fuels-for-u … -notice-75

After a speed read I see there are many exceptions and reductions in duty for various circumstances but can't see anything on exemption for a specified quantity.

Anyone got a reliable reference to info on limited use of veg oil?

Duty ( not tax) used to be payable on the fuel used.  Hundreds of cheques for £19.14p ( or whatever)every month. It became more expensive  to collect the duty than the income generated , so........  they introduced a 2500 litre exemption , below which no duty is payable. Above 2500 litres duty payable on all oil used.

Last edited by steve the grease (2020-02-19 02:16:26)

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#27 2020-02-19 03:18:35

badrobot
Member
From: Durham
Registered: 2020-02-17
Posts: 14

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

I'm trying to find the fuel pump on this vehicle, any takers? wink

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#28 2020-02-19 03:24:42

badrobot
Member
From: Durham
Registered: 2020-02-17
Posts: 14

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

steve the grease wrote:

The turbo 1.9 finished in 1999 when the 2.0 Hdi came out. The DW8 is the old school engine , it will run veg oil all day long if it has a  Bosch pump. The Lucas /Delphi pump is weak and will fail. 99% of DW8's have a Lucas pump. So you need to fit a bosch pump off an older XUD engine. These are getting harder to come buy and its a not a perfectly simple swap, you need to change the pipes as well , and bend them to fit the differently placed injectors.

The 2.0 Hdi, is a completely different kettle of fish . It is a direct injection engine , not a Ricardo design. The fuel injection system is a high pressure common rail system and will not tolerate anything like a neat veg oil mix. You cant , ' fit a bosch pump'  it's not the same engine design. There are people on the veg oil diesel  forum  who are having some success running veg/ derv/rug mixes like (90%svo+10%rug) 60% and 40% derv.

I've been running XUD's on wvo for the past 12 years, so have some idea of what works and what won't.

I knew someone who used to filter his own wvo and said it was quite easy, with the right filter/set up, though can't remember what grade of fineness mesh, but might give it a try. Messy? Any pointers Steve the grease or is it one of those best kept secrets wink

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#29 2020-02-19 13:23:25

steve the grease
Member
Registered: 2018-05-20
Posts: 82

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

For anything veg related I can only suggest you join this forum : http://vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/mybbforum/      There is a lot of expertise on here , all problems looked at and usually explained and sorted. A helpful group , but please do a bit of basic research  on the site before asking questions, as the same straightforward questions sometimes get asked over and over again.

messy yes , cheap .... very . Worth it , I think so.

Last edited by steve the grease (2020-02-19 14:01:19)

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#30 2020-02-19 13:59:28

steve the grease
Member
Registered: 2018-05-20
Posts: 82

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

badrobot wrote:

I'm trying to find the fuel pump on this vehicle, any takers? wink

What you are looking at is a Mahle filter housing for a 2.0 HDi - dependant on year it could be either a Bosch or a Siemens pump.  This type of pump is not exchangeable for a Bosch mechanical pump , it is a completely different system. The Bosch mechanical injectors blow off at 175 bar . The Hdi common rail system runs at 2,000 bar or 29,000 psi.  It's like comparing hamsters and wellington boots, they don't have a lot in common......

Last edited by steve the grease (2020-02-19 13:59:57)

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#31 2020-02-20 14:43:05

Firemoth
Member
From: Bacup, Lancashire
Registered: 2019-07-05
Posts: 55

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

That's a lot of reading so I'll just reply and hope it's helpful lol.

I have a 1.9td (1997 xud) with a Bosch pump. I run mine on 100% veg all year round. So far it's been down to -4 degrees and I've not had an issue. That's the easy one.

My wife has a xsara picasso 2.0hdi (piece of crap, I hate that bloody car lol). Anyway, the 2 0hdi is a common rail engine, so that limits veg use. They were fitted with either a Bosch or I think Siemens fuel system. The Bosch has an in tank lift pump. The Siemens does not, and instead has a primer bulb in the engine bay (the Bosch system doesn't have a primer bulb).

That in tank pump is the weakest part of the system. I'm reality, they're naff on diesel and loads fail. We run my wife's car 50/50. I've heard of people running up to 70% with this system, but I wouldn't chance it.

About a year (12000 miles) and the in tank lift pump failed. This could be caused by veg, or it could have happened anyway, there's no way of knowing with them being a common failure anyway. I got a new sender unit with pump for £35 on eBay and took me a couple hours to drop the tank and replace.

With the hdi, stick to know more than 50% in my view, remembering that pump is rubbish.

Best bet in relation to veg is get yourself a 1.9td with a Bosch pump and never use diesel again  wink

In terms of the 2500 litres a year, it's not illegal to use more than that, but that's the tax exemption. It is available online somewhere. Yes it's hard to prove you've gone over, but if someone was to report you (and people do, thinking your running on red) HMRC may pay you a visit, and you have to be able to show them, or at least convince them, that you're not over the limit. Otherwise they can take your mileage and the last recorded mileage (MOT) and work out an average mpg of your vehicle, calculate the estimated fuel usage, and charge you the tax. As well as a fine.

I tend to buy 100 litres a fortnight barring once a year. That way I know I've not gone over. I should keep records to be completely safe, but I'm not organised enough lol


If in doubt, give it a clout!

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#32 2021-08-23 19:10:34

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

I have the 2005, 1.9D

Can someone confirm if I'm understanding this right - that I can run on veg oil without modification!? If I'm looking at the right area (since this seems to be where the hose goes from the primer button) I have a Lucas pump? Even 50% derv/Veg oil mix is cheaper than sod all!

I've circled where I think I'm supposed to be looking. Thanks!
is this a Lucas pump?

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-08-23 19:13:33)


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#33 2021-08-23 21:41:37

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

Additionally, can the DW8 engine run on SVO(straight veg oil from the no frills tesco bottle) or does it need to be brewed first?


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#34 2021-08-24 00:00:28

kenbw2
Member
From: Anywhere the van takes me
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 872

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

I ran my DW8 for a couple of years on 100% SVO no problem, worked a treat

The Lucas pump you have there is however not fantastic for SVO. I think Casper on here ran his Lucas DW8 on 50:50 but I did a Bosch conversion for mine to go full 100%

Let me know if you find cheap veg oil! Everywhere seems to be more than £1.00 per litre right now  mad

Last edited by kenbw2 (2021-08-24 00:01:51)


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#35 2021-08-24 01:03:24

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 105

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

Could you not just turn it into biodiesel if not.  I used to make it myself 13 years ago when i was doing a renewables course and learnt the process.  I would then cut the end product with regular diesel 50/50.

Used to make it in an oil drum in 50L batches.  Its really easy if you are methodical.  Basically it boils down to putting meths and lye together, heating up the veg oil and mixing everything together then leaving it to separate.  Just keep records.  But then in the four years i ran my old fiesta on that 50/50 mix I never once got stopped and tested, nor did anyone come knocking on my door.

As a side hustle (if you did make it), you can take the glycerin by-product and use it to make scented soap that could be flogged on ebay or just given to anyone who wants it.  I used to make lavender soap using lavender I would grow in the garden, which i then extracted and then mixed with the glycerin.  Easy Christmas gifts from a waste product that you might have thrown away.

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#36 2021-08-24 01:10:47

Stu-D
Member
From: Scotland
Registered: 2019-07-30
Posts: 128
Website

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

I'm tryig to convince my mates who have land at Bonaly in Edinburgh to chuck a load of rapeseed on the land instead of making glamping pods... no need for units and pads for other stuff, just one pad, unit and distillery making our own bio gogo... and selling the rest back to the govt while they pay is for planting it... hopefully they will see the sense soon lol. big_smile

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#37 2021-08-24 02:27:41

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

kenbw2 wrote:

I ran my DW8 for a couple of years on 100% SVO no problem, worked a treat

The Lucas pump you have there is however not fantastic for SVO. I think Casper on here ran his Lucas DW8 on 50:50 but I did a Bosch conversion for mine to go full 100%

Let me know if you find cheap veg oil! Everywhere seems to be more than £1.00 per litre right now  mad

So, that's a yes - I have a lucas?

And yes, I can use SVO straight from the bottle (in a 50/50 mix of derv/so?)

As to the question of brewing it properly - im looking into doing just that! I've a mate in my church who runs a chippy, I could get his WVO, filter it, and chuck out some proper quality gear.

One Meth (well, eth) lab in my back yard, coming up!


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#38 2021-08-24 04:32:00

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 105

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

BlantyreBotanicals wrote:

One Meth (well, eth) lab in my back yard, coming up!

If its eth I guess a bottle of Poitin could be made once in a while, obviously not using the same kit unless you want to go blind (and die). wink

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#39 2021-08-24 14:21:40

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

So here goes... im gonna fill a tenner of derv then get the equivalent lires of svg an see how we go!

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-08-24 14:22:49)


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#40 2021-08-24 15:01:27

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

20210824-145721.jpg

Is this diesel? Let's find out...

20210824-145938.jpg

5 litres of derv, with half a bottle of this stuff should give me a conservation 75/25 mix.

£5.45 for 5 litres? Oh its cheaper but only by 20pence - 1.15 per litre for veg oil!?

EDIT: after a further few miles with no issue, I've chucked the remainder of the bottle in.

The gauge was on the red but the light wasn't yet on - so there was a bit of derv left in the tank - not sure how much? Anyone,? - so with 5 litres of derv and 5 litre of SVO, plus whatever was in the tank will give me close to a 50/50 mix, obv. depending on whatever was already there.

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-08-24 15:32:58)


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#41 2021-08-24 20:35:13

kenbw2
Member
From: Anywhere the van takes me
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 872

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

It'll definitely run on even 100% SVO, the only issue you're risking with the Lucas pump (yes that's a Lucas pump) is it could easily fail catastrophically after an unspecified amount of time.

50:50 might be okay, I'd be interested to see others' experiences.

Get to Farmfoods though, that's the cheapest right now at about £1.05/litre. What happened to the 80p/litre options?  mad


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#42 2021-08-24 22:04:56

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

I googled the veg oil rising prices. Apparently its something to do with India and the economics of supply/demand.

I'm definately considering putting a WVO installation in my yard/shed. Filter, tank, all salvageable from the local municipal tip if I get in fast enough before the workers


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#43 2021-08-24 22:43:23

kenbw2
Member
From: Anywhere the van takes me
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 872

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

BlantyreBotanicals wrote:

I googled the veg oil rising prices. Apparently its something to do with India and the economics of supply/demand

Oh I never thought to google it, yea there's a lot of stuff on it isn't there. Dammit, well at least now I know why  neutral

Last edited by kenbw2 (2021-08-24 22:43:57)


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#44 2021-08-24 23:41:06

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 105

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

Would running the higher octane (Super) diesel (such as BP Ultimate) help out?  Seems if you are saving a bunch of money you could use better quality diesel with the SVO to help in the burning and to keep down carbon deposits, etc.

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#45 2021-08-25 00:45:35

kenbw2
Member
From: Anywhere the van takes me
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 872

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

Pathfinder100 wrote:

Would running the higher octane (Super) diesel (such as BP Ultimate) help out?  Seems if you are saving a bunch of money you could use better quality diesel with the SVO to help in the burning and to keep down carbon deposits, etc.

I occasionally do that by adding cetane boost additive: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201887032014


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

Online

#46 2021-08-25 02:41:40

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

kenbw2 wrote:
Pathfinder100 wrote:

Would running the higher octane (Super) diesel (such as BP Ultimate) help out?  Seems if you are saving a bunch of money you could use better quality diesel with the SVO to help in the burning and to keep down carbon deposits, etc.

I occasionally do that by adding cetane boost additive: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201887032014

Thanks for this - I'll consider it. I take it this isn't just another name for that Red-X stuff that cleans your injectors?


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#47 2021-08-25 13:27:06

kenbw2
Member
From: Anywhere the van takes me
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 872

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

It claims to help with cold starts and efficiency by increasing the rate or something that it burns at. I can't say I noticed any difference, I rarely use it.

It won't help with the Lucas pump though, it's more about combustion.


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#48 2021-08-25 16:26:19

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 105

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

I know the BP Ultimate runs hotter than regular diesel.  I tend to run about 5L of it for every 20L of regular diesel.  it lifts the power up a touch on my van, but not as much as if I ran it completely on it.  But IMO it's too risky on an engine as old as mine to run it completely on super diesel.  But putting about 20-25% in with your tank of regular should be fine.

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#49 2021-08-27 11:29:21

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,223

Re: Virgin post-oil rev-solution

I have a  friend who ran his  Dog Corsa Dti on a mixture [unknown probably50:50] with waste engine oil for about 20,000 miles [about 2and half years from purchase] until the Corsa failed an mot...................
He was very fastidious about filtering  [Through some type of cloth in the funnel] the used oil and it's source [no contamination with petrol water etc] and changed his fuel filter more regularly than the book change..............

Everything [Pipes etc] went black

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