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#1 2021-09-12 17:33:36

BlantyreBotanicals
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From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

My story...
Okay, so I'm trundling along the road, one man and his van, when suddenly the brake pedal goes spongy. Then it went hard again. Phew, relax. Half a mile later, same. It was like that until I was nearly home... at which point it went spongy and stayed spongy! Oh noes - I could hazard a little guess as to what's happened - I'm out of brake fluid - but the why was puzzling me. On my return I popped the bonnet and looked at the hydraulic fluid master reservoir (at least, I assume it was that, the one at the back of the engine bay above, just right of centre and above where the gearbox is. It was completely bone dry... I looked at the passenger side front wheel, and the tyre was lovely and shiny, half covered with brake fluid.

Now, last week I had mentioned in a previous thread that there was a whooshing, almost metallic but not quite, sound coming from the engine bay area when moving around the Tesco car park at a slow speed, and this noise also happens whilst braking. But because the noise was also happening whilst *not* under braking, I had (wrongly it seems) assumed it wasn't brakes. During my journey home where the pedal went spongy, this noise had gone completely whilst driving and now was only happening under braking. And it was worse...

Theories, theories...
So, my theory was that my brake pads had worn down and it was metal on metal. I couldn't fathom what was causing the noise whilst not under braking, but it could have just been the brake calliper & disc binding due to the heat whilst braking, and only fully releasing at a higher speed. But actually I think the explanation is simpler...

So I did a quick internet search when I got home, what would have caused me to pish half a reservoir tank of brake/clutch fluid everywhere? When your brake pads have worn down completely, the piston that closes the brake calliper will become hyper-extended, causing the system to leak brake fluid and potentially letting air into the system. Release the pedal and the slave cylinder will fill up with more fluid. And because the pedal went spongy whilst the cylinder was empty, I kept pumping the brake pedal to make it go hard again, actually speeding up the leak!!! D'OH!

Diagnostics
I've now got the van up on two axle stands with both wheels off so I can look at the brakes. Sure enough, passenger side has NO pad on one side, and a completely scratched and scarred disc. The pad is completely gone, not just the composite brake surface, but also the metal plate that the braking surface is attached to. So that noise that I heard whilst *not* under braking? I think it is a simple explanation - the metal plate that holds the brake pad had partly slipped out of its home and was coming into contact with the spinning disc. When it finally fell off (or was grinded down to nothing) the non-braking whooshing metallic sound stopped.

What has really pissed me off is that on the drivers side, there is what appears to be a nice shiny new brake disc! And almost brand new brake pads! The geezer who sold me the van had obviously very recently replaced the drivers side pads & disc. What nobber only replaces one side of a set of front brakes!?! Every internet site I have looked at, the pads come in a set of four FFS! So it wasn't a money saving exercise for him. I can understand not replacing the disc, but to not replace the pads on one side? Criminal! When one side wears out, you just KNOW the other side will be almost worn.

Even if he hadn't replaced it, and was wanting to wait until that side was worn down before replacing it, why didn't he just tell me when I was buying the van - "Oh by the way mate, I replaced the drivers side brake pads, so the passenger side will be due soon." Then I would have bought the parts and waited for it to wear out. Wouldn't have nearly killed myself when my brakes gave way, and wouldn't have had to nurse a 2.5 tonne vehicle all the way back, some 10 miles, from home.

Questions, Questions...
So - I've looked up the pads & discs, and there are a few options to choose from. Obvously I will be going with the eicher pads as they are the cheapest, coming in at around 16 sovs on Euro Car Parts (I won't actually be using Euro, and anyway it is closed on Sundays, but its a good indicator of price) and all the pads have this wire attached, presumably the wear indicator. I don't think my van, an Expert Mark I 2005 model, 1.9D has a wear indicator, so what do I do? Just cut this wire off?

As to the discs, there are a few different manufacturers and two different types of disc. Which one am I picking?


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#2 2021-09-12 17:41:04

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

Okay, I may have a major problem... the piston has come right out... I noticed it was wobbly when trying to push it back into it's home. So I twisted it around a bit whilst trying to push it back down - then I gave it another wobble when the clamp was unsuccessful in pushing it down. And it felt really loose - gave it a little tug (since my master resevoir is totally empty anyway... There was lots of fluid behind the piston still, so I got a container beneath to catch it, and just lifted the piston right off - EEEEK!

How do I get it back in? Since there is now no fluid behind it, it should just slide right back in place, right? Please say yes (but don't lie  lol ) - how can I tell if the gator/rubber seal is knackered without putting everything back together and taking her for a spin...

I'll pop a photo on here momentarily


Peugeot Expert 1.9D, 2005 (55)
Peugeot 207 1.4 Sport, 2010 (59)
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#3 2021-09-12 17:43:29

AlvyLad
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Registered: 2021-06-11
Posts: 44

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

Read up here
https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/foru … id=715&p=1
I've sort of hijacked the thread there unfortunately, but got my brakes working perfect now

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#4 2021-09-12 17:47:31

scotchjoe
Member
From: Northern Ireland
Registered: 2020-01-08
Posts: 84

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

I would say buy the best brake pads you can afford, not the cheapest you can find.
You have turn the calliper piston as you push it in.

Last edited by scotchjoe (2021-09-12 17:54:55)

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#5 2021-09-12 17:58:14

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

AlvyLad wrote:

Read up here
https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/foru … id=715&p=1
I've sort of hijacked the thread there unfortunately, but got my brakes working perfect now

Not *that* thread again!  lol  lol  lol  big_smile


Peugeot Expert 1.9D, 2005 (55)
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#6 2021-09-12 18:14:00

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

My energy drink went bad...
20210912-180940.jpg
(It's actually brake fluid)

So here's the piston...
20210912-180935.jpg

Go in you bastard...
20210912-180920.jpg

20210912-180907.jpg


Peugeot Expert 1.9D, 2005 (55)
Peugeot 207 1.4 Sport, 2010 (59)
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#7 2021-09-12 18:17:05

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

That looks fine, doesn't it? Think I have to undo the bleed valve to get this blighter back in though-it goes so far then gets stuck
20210912-180820.jpg


Peugeot Expert 1.9D, 2005 (55)
Peugeot 207 1.4 Sport, 2010 (59)
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#8 2021-09-12 18:19:21

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

Could I safely use copper grease as a lube, to get this back in? Or just oil, or wd40? Or maybe actual brake fluid?


Peugeot Expert 1.9D, 2005 (55)
Peugeot 207 1.4 Sport, 2010 (59)
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#9 2021-09-12 18:38:28

BlantyreBotanicals
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From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

20210912-183723.jpg

So I got it back in - does this rubber gator need to be seated in any particular way? Or does this look right to you?

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-09-12 19:53:28)


Peugeot Expert 1.9D, 2005 (55)
Peugeot 207 1.4 Sport, 2010 (59)
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#10 2021-09-12 20:25:18

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 105

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

Don't use copper grease.  You need brake lubricant, its usually a pink jelly.  This stuff is what i use on my bike brakes to lubricate the piston.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/313561874338

I don't know about the gaiter, but on most calipers you will find a rubber seal inside the caliper that keeps the brake fluid from leaking out.  On bikes there is no gaiter between the piston and caliper, so i can't say for sure.

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#11 2021-09-13 16:44:09

BlantyreBotanicals
Member
From: Glasgow
Registered: 2021-08-18
Posts: 65
Website

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

YAY one successful installation.

Given the quality of the driver side brake pads and disc I didn't bother changing it. So I have a spare disc and pads now ? I'll change them together when they go, if I still have van by then.

On a side note, having a chance to look underneath she is SOLID!!!

The piston turned out to be good. I did 10 miles and the only sign of brake fluid is from the bleed valve were I pumped the pedal and it passed out and covered the back of the front bumper and horn  big_smile

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-09-13 16:45:19)


Peugeot Expert 1.9D, 2005 (55)
Peugeot 207 1.4 Sport, 2010 (59)
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#12 2021-09-14 03:52:07

Pathfinder100
Member
From: South Yorkshire
Registered: 2021-07-19
Posts: 105

Re: What pads & discs do I need? To brake or not to brake?

That fluid looked pretty bad.  Probably a good thing you changed it.  Brake fluid is hygroscopic and therefore requires to be changed every couple of years.  I generally do mine on the bike every two years and put new piston seals in.  If it's all working, then you are good to go for a bit. smile

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