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#1 2023-11-04 04:35:00

Scudojimbo69
Member
Registered: 2019-10-25
Posts: 5

2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

Hi everyone . My Peugeot Expert non Turbo is running rough on idle with lots of smoke . It actually starts and idles really well for about 15 seconds or so ,then there is a slight increase in revs and then the engine develops a misfire and wants to cut out. Chugging with lots of smelly smoke (smells of fuel)   Since the problem has began it has had The EGR cleaned . New Glow plugs . New Fuel filter ,New Air filter. New Maf . Once the engine is warmed up it runs sort of ok but with a slight misfire .It is strange that  it ticks over so well at first it is doing my head in . I did plug in a cheap scanner but it did`nt show any codes that were of any use . I would appreciate any advice please .Thanks.

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#2 2023-11-04 07:06:06

AlvyLad
Member
Registered: 2021-06-11
Posts: 401

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

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#3 2023-11-05 10:25:32

Scudojimbo69
Member
Registered: 2019-10-25
Posts: 5

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

Yes . Thank you for your reply . I had read this article a few times and tried out the suggestions in it . One of the vital photos is no longer there now which is a shame . A couple of questions that you might be able to answer perhaps ?

My Glow Plug relay keeps clicking for about 20 minutes even when the ignition is off . Is this normal  ?  ( I did exchange it for a secondhand one off e bay thinking it was bad)

Is there a Crankcase pressure relief valve on these engines ? .I seem to have way to much oil vapour in the EGR for my liking.

Thanks again

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#4 2023-11-05 17:09:48

AlvyLad
Member
Registered: 2021-06-11
Posts: 401

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

The point of reading that topic is the EGR being utterly useless, and how to disconnect it (isolate).
If you are adamant to repair yours-good luck, but consider very many variables involved, not just actual valve, that iners aren't made to be repairable, vacuum is also connected to brakes via very fancy (useless once again) routes, that are different from one van to the next.

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#5 2023-11-05 18:08:59

JohnDragonMan
Member
From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 408
Website

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

when its doing the rough running, if you turn it off and start it up again is it the same?

if so turn it off, unplug the ECU and see if its identical. these will run without the ecu plugged in but it runs rough with smoke.

it can be anything from bad ECU power to a faulty crank position sensor. i have seen it where the ECU can get a bad ground that causes all kids of issues.


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: Internally rust proof the sills and subframe! both skins!!. There's always user serviceable parts inside. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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#6 2023-11-05 19:24:33

Scudojimbo69
Member
Registered: 2019-10-25
Posts: 5

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

If it starts running rough and I turn it off ,then turn it back on again it runs smooth for 10 -15 seconds again .Then cough cough and smokey . Once it has done a few miles the problem goes away . It is just that it wont pass an MOT the way it is  .. I did have sort of the same problem on my 98  .Scudo but new glow plugs fixed the problem.

It still does all this even if the EGR is disabled .

Like i say .It starts and ticks over fine but then there is a SLIGHT increase in revs, like something is kicking in  ? Would this be the Throttle position sensor ?
that is what i will look at next . Or like you say the crankshaft sensor.

Any thoughts on the glow plug relay still clicking away when the ignition is OFF . BTW  Is that normal ?

Thanks again

Last edited by Scudojimbo69 (2023-11-05 19:30:41)

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#7 2023-11-06 00:14:33

JohnDragonMan
Member
From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 408
Website

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

i dont think its normal. like i say that sounds like an earthing issue.. somethings trying to route through the relay to get a ground.

im not really clued up on the dw8 engine sadly i am more of a dw10 HDI... guy.

thing is, glowplugs should not cause the issue. the ecu only exists to "refine" the injections. the engine will run without the ecu. it just makes it run smooth. sadly i think it will be a "keep replacing things until it works" thing. otherwise plug it into some diagnostic live data and see what stops working when the issue happens. like if suddenly it stops displaying RPMs it would be the crank shaft sensor. if you loose all connection to the ecu it would be a power to the ecu failure.

its about all you can do. if you are close to Derby i can do the diagnostics for you smile


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: Internally rust proof the sills and subframe! both skins!!. There's always user serviceable parts inside. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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#8 2023-11-06 16:03:31

kenbw2
Administrator
From: Preston
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 1,292

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

JohnDragonMan wrote:

the engine will run without the ecu. it just makes it run smooth.

Is this true of the DW10 HDi too?


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#9 2023-11-06 18:23:03

AlvyLad
Member
Registered: 2021-06-11
Posts: 401

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

JohnDragonMan wrote:

thing is, glowplugs should not cause the issue. the ecu only exists to "refine" the injections. the engine will run without the ecu. it just makes it run smooth. sadly i think it will be a "keep replacing things until it works" thing. otherwise plug it into some diagnostic live data and see what stops working when the issue happens. like if suddenly it stops displaying RPMs it would be the crank shaft sensor. if you loose all connection to the ecu it would be a power to the ecu failure.

Would you not discount cacked injectors in all?

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#10 2023-11-06 21:47:14

Scudojimbo69
Member
Registered: 2019-10-25
Posts: 5

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

Well I do thank you all for your input .

I will try the earthing suggestion . Sadly my van has not been looked after by others in the past and the wiring loom looks like it has been abused with loose connections here and there .

I have wondered about a defective injector or injector seals as well.?

I am new to there kind of engines myself being more used to the old Peugeot XUD `s which never gave me problems like this  .

I would take up you kind offer of diagnostics JohnDragonMan but i live in deepest Devon

Meantime its back under the bonnet  for me .I will let you know if I get lucky smile  Cheers

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#11 2023-11-08 19:48:04

JohnDragonMan
Member
From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 408
Website

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

kenbw2 wrote:
JohnDragonMan wrote:

the engine will run without the ecu. it just makes it run smooth.

Is this true of the DW10 HDi too?

no its a totally ECU controlled engine with a single high pressure fuel rail which feeds all of the injectors with high pressure fuel constantly while the engine is running.
the only thing that makes the injectors fire is the ecu. on the DW8 the pump provides pressure sequentially to each injector individually which is why the pump needs to be timed when doing a cam belt change. the ECU on the DW8 actually shuts the fuel off when it sends power to the injector. well more so pulses the fuel on an off while it burns.
the DW8's injector pump is a lot like the older XUD injector pumps only if they had the fuel screw turned all the way up and the injection time really long.

its all fascinating stuff, what different diesel engine manufacturer's did to comply with the higher emissions tolerances at the time the engine was made. while at the same time using as much of the old "machines that made the older (XUD era) engines" and also parts from the older engines..  or at least changing them as little as possible.

AlvyLad wrote:

Would you not discount cacked injectors in all?

anything's possible however to me with it working "sometimes" perfectly fine i would not have thought build up on the injectors would cause it. i know a little with the dw8 only from... experiments.. with a few test subjects that came into the scrap yard i work at. not had one in for a while sadly. however what i learned was that if the DW8 looses something electrically important the engine keeps running but runs rough due the injection time being longer and more fuel being dumped causing grey smoke.

something Scudojimbo69 may like to know is that if all else fails, you can just take off the injection pump and pull the injectors and just fit the injection pump and matching injectors from any old XUD engine. not only does the engine sound better but you also make it super reliable effectively removing all of the *ahemunnecessaryahem* electronics from the engine.  ...   and you can also run it on.... well very "bio" fuels

personally to me the better engine out of all 3 is the XUD9TD 1905cc. i even retrofitted a non turbo one into a gas forklift truck at work as the original gas/lpg mitsibusi 4G3 engine kept blowing head gaskets and i was sick of replacing them. 6 years on the engine daily has the living hell thrashed out of it (as its geared for engines with a 7k rpm red line) so its always being held at its maximum RPM (strait from cold too might i add!). like i say 6 years on of all that hell and it shows absolutely no signs of failing. i dont think its ever been serviced too.. not by me anyway, i never have the time. i bet those precombustion chambers look like a spiders web haha

sorry rambling on..


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: Internally rust proof the sills and subframe! both skins!!. There's always user serviceable parts inside. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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#12 2023-11-09 21:08:46

Scudojimbo69
Member
Registered: 2019-10-25
Posts: 5

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

That might be an option ? Thank you !  I do have a couple old XUD injection pumps still . tongue

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#13 2023-11-09 23:15:58

kenbw2
Administrator
From: Preston
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 1,292

Re: 2005 Peugeot Expert with WJYB8 engine rough idle

Can confirm, after many fruitless attempts to find a Bosch DW8 pump for my old van, I eventually just fitted an XUD pump and it worked a treat. Even kept the Lucas injectors.


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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