Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

Mixerfistit · 2023-11-08 23:12:38

For a while I've had a bit of trouble starting if parked uphill (steep) if the fuel light has come on even if not for too long. Rolling back and turning across the road is enough to get it start immediately and I've never observed it when downhill or fuel light not on.

Recently there's a bit of a diesel whiff in the engine bay so will be checking the filter and pipes on the weekend but there isn't any diesel making it to the floor so doesn't seem major. It may be related if air is getting in obvs.
(any obvious places to look on the HDi?)

The second part of the query is the lifter pump. I'm guessing we have one in the HDi so it's possible mine has failed? Is there supposed to be a pump priming sound when turning the key? I've never heard it since purchase.

JohnDragonMan · 2023-11-10 21:56:54

yeah mine has a lift pump. i am not sure however but i think theres a version of the HDi that does not have one. i may be wrong though.

i must admit the lifter pump is rather silent on these, my advice is to take off the return fuel line to the tank, put a bit of pipe onto the engine side of the fuel return, pop the other end of the pipe into a clean bottle and just turn the ignition on for a second but dont start the engine. if you have fuel in the bottle the lift pump is working.

i say do it on the return as it wont de-prime the fuel system.

theres also the possibility that the fuel filter seal may be letting air get into it. though that was more common on the 1.9 dw8 (and xud) style fuel filter housings.

you do have an inertia switch on these vans which is located around where the power steering bottle is. that switch if tripped cuts off the power to the in tank fuel pump.

usually however if the in tank lifter pump fails, the engine wont run.

if the gradient of the hill is quite steep, it may be just the fact that the lifter pump is out of the level of fuel in the tank. my old Fiat panda does that when i get the light come on but i did rebuild the tank and remove all the baffles from it (lol baffles in a 35l tank.. thats really going to flip the car over).

its something i have never tried with my van.. but im one of those people that never let the fuel light come on lmao never know when i may need to do a big road trip. always prepared.

Mixerfistit · 2023-11-11 02:01:51

Cheers JDM, I'll check the filter next dry spell and do the bottle test. Filter was the only thing new when I bought the van so one of the few things I haven't touched. It's a good candidate for the source of the new diesel whiff which is likely contributing if not directly related to the hill start issue.
BTW have you hooked up yours to a basic obd reader? I swear mine used to show fuel rail pressure, now it just reads 0. Haven't plugged my Lexia in yet though to confirm.

Need to track down a vacuum issue too. Pumping the brake pedal repeatedly exhausts the vacuum even with engine running (only for a second then it recovers) won't be much original rubber left on this van the way it's going! 1 trailing arm bush to go and said pipes lol

Mixerfistit · 2023-11-11 13:52:52

Thought I'd give a good laugh this morning. Behold, the previous owner's attempt at sealing the fuel filter housing roll On the bright side, it does seem to be successful in panning for gold...

JohnDragonMan · 2023-11-11 18:57:12

ahh nice. yes its common. i was lucky with mine, it seems to seal quite well. i did replace the o ring though. yeah with the gold dust in it, that looks like its not been changed for a while.. i would expect to see that after like 50k miles. my one was the same when i changed the filter.

you can totally drain the fuel filter down if you do end up having a lift pump as they prime up quite quick.

i dont have a cheap scanner sadly, i have a foxwell all in one and delphi clone that runs off a laptop. both read the fuel rail pressure.

the tanks on these vans are quite long so they would get it where they suck air if they are low on fuel and on a steep slope.

in my van i have a slight leak on the high pressure pump. its not enough to drip but its enough to get the smell and see a slight "wet" patch.

ill get around to doing it. i need to change the oil and filter on both my van and my little old panda 4x4. ill get around to it at some point.

Mixerfistit · 2023-11-13 00:41:36

Sadly after further observation my HP pump is piddling out for the first minute on start up then seals itself. Apparently very common on the CP1. Kit ordered so it'll be going in for some surgery when I get the chance.

John, you may want to double check your pump when starting from cold. Surprising how it seals itself so quickly after start up, especially from how bad it leaks now when cold. Mines at the point where it'll leave a patch on the floor then pretend nothings happening except for the smell.

JohnDragonMan · 2023-11-14 01:01:42

i mean, it has a damp patch on the top of the pump. no puddle under the van yet.. mind you i do have an under tray fitted to mine. besides if it got that bad, i have the pump and fuel pressure sensor from a bmw m57 engine ready to go on... just swap the 2 outer wires around on the fuel pressure sensor and its apparently like having it remapped making the fuel rail pressure double!

bet it makes things interesting...

Mixerfistit · 2023-11-15 18:26:07

Interesting. I'd heard of the upgrade from a cp4. Wasn't sure if a cp3 could replace a cp1 but I suppose it would just drop in as they look similar. I guess our vans are dumb enough to accept it too. I've unplugged the sensor on mine in the past and it didn't seem to care.

As an aside, what's the other sensor for on the fuel line to (further to the right than the filter)? It seems to look at both lines before the filter. Does it measure a difference of flow in and out to measure consumption?

Also where did you get an undertray from? Is it off a synergie or one of its siblings or aftermarket?

Last edited by Mixerfistit (2023-11-15 18:27:10)

JohnDragonMan · 2023-11-16 01:11:06

i think its just a fuel temperature sensor. nothing fancy on these vans. the under tray was from ebay. it did cost some if i remember though. i bought it to help the thing get warm in the winter.

Mixerfistit · 2023-11-19 14:42:26

Thanks John, I've seen the eBay ones and also thought they were a little bit pricey, doesn't seem to be any other options out there though so may bite the bullet. I always think the aux belt is a bit exposed to FOD so that's another reason to fit one.

Back to the original issue.. Pump refit day today (customary wind and rain in attendance).

o rings from 2 of the 3 pistons were clearly damaged/frayed so hopefully all good now

Last edited by Mixerfistit (2023-11-19 14:47:33)

AlvyLad · 2023-11-20 02:01:55

Mixerfistit wrote:

Also where did you get an undertray from? Is it off a synergie or one of its siblings or aftermarket?

Citroen Dispatch 99% identical = Peugeot Expert ; Fiat Scudo
Engines, running gear 90%= Fiat Ulyse; Peugeot 806; Citroen Synergie,.
If the engine matches, undertray should match too.
Should.
(Don't take my word religiously, do some sort off checks, what's possible, as I don't even pretend to be mechanic)

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#1 2023-11-08 23:12:38

Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#2 2023-11-10 21:56:54

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#3 2023-11-11 02:01:51

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#4 2023-11-11 13:52:52

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#5 2023-11-11 18:57:12

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#6 2023-11-13 00:41:36

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#7 2023-11-14 01:01:42

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#8 2023-11-15 18:26:07

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#9 2023-11-16 01:11:06

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#10 2023-11-19 14:42:26

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

#11 2023-11-20 02:01:55

Re: Uphill starting issues (2.0 HDi) also do we have a lifter pump?

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