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#1 2020-12-06 12:55:06

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 607

ODB2 Extended PIDs

I've been keeping myself busy trying to work out how to display live engine parameters on my 2015 Expert.
Apart from a few basic parameters that have standard PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs there's a whole bunch of proprietary extended PIDs that are not public. There is very little info about this on the net, though I did find some details about a C4 on a Russian website https://www.drive2.com/l/498229676427182085/
From what I can see, unfortunately, these PIDs are not standardised across different engines

As it turns if you have Diagbox, then the data logs can reveal these extended PIds, and you can then load them into the Torque app.

It may be a little niche, but as a start I've documented an overview of the basic process here

https://blue-van.blogspot.com/2020/12/f … -pids.html

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#2 2020-12-14 01:52:48

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

tee_cee wrote:

I've been keeping myself busy trying to work out how to display live engine parameters on my 2015 Expert.
Apart from a few basic parameters that have standard PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs there's a whole bunch of proprietary extended PIDs that are not public. There is very little info about this on the net, though I did find some details about a C4 on a Russian website https://www.drive2.com/l/498229676427182085/
From what I can see, unfortunately, these PIDs are not standardised across different engines

As it turns if you have Diagbox, then the data logs can reveal these extended PIds, and you can then load them into the Torque app.

It may be a little niche, but as a start I've documented an overview of the basic process here

https://blue-van.blogspot.com/2020/12/f … -pids.html

This will be very handy for anybody or myself in the future as the need to move onto "newer vans" if I can ever get my head around it .............
{Showing my ignorance}

One thing I need to ask is does this Diagbox need the Lexia OBD thingy.......
And does this work on the cloned china versions............

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#3 2020-12-14 17:56:23

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 607

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

vaz2121 wrote:
tee_cee wrote:

I've been keeping myself busy trying to work out how to display live engine parameters on my 2015 Expert.
Apart from a few basic parameters that have standard PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs there's a whole bunch of proprietary extended PIDs that are not public. There is very little info about this on the net, though I did find some details about a C4 on a Russian website https://www.drive2.com/l/498229676427182085/
From what I can see, unfortunately, these PIDs are not standardised across different engines

As it turns if you have Diagbox, then the data logs can reveal these extended PIds, and you can then load them into the Torque app.

It may be a little niche, but as a start I've documented an overview of the basic process here

https://blue-van.blogspot.com/2020/12/f … -pids.html

This will be very handy for anybody or myself in the future as the need to move onto "newer vans" if I can ever get my head around it .............
{Showing my ignorance}

One thing I need to ask is does this Diagbox need the Lexia OBD thingy.......
And does this work on the cloned china versions............

Yes, you will need the hardware Lexia to connect (they are all Chinese closes). The software (diagbox) can be a right pain to install - base install then a lot of upgrades, though I do see some people on ebay selling what looks like a single install.
It's fine for tinkering with options, like door locking, and reading fault codes. However a laptop is not really practical for live data.

Having this on the dash is much better I think.

Screenshot_2020-12-14-14-50-21.jpeg

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#4 2020-12-15 13:26:07

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

I can't deny your thought of monitoring Live data in front of you rather than laptop..........
If you have that facility .......

I'm curious to the 4 parameters that you are showing in your pic ..........

The bottom two..... I'd say easy to pick out as DPF (FAP) ........
the other two not So.............
The first especially ...... The Temp has me flummoxed entirely ..............

The Highest value= 296C    Lowest 100C ..............
That is to hot for engine cooling ...........
And to low to Burn off soot in a DPF even with the aid of injected FAP fluid I beleive 450C is necessary ...........

All this before I decide what pressure is being monitored ............
{Again it may be DPF But Millibar seems to me to not be enough Differential Pressure for that}  ..............
{I Could so easily be wrong about it all}

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#5 2020-12-15 17:09:44

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 607

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

At the moment I need to watch what's happening with the DPF - and will post on separate thread shortly.

So I'm monitoring
Exhaust temperature, which is normally 150 to 250, rising to 450+ when regenerating.   
Differential pressure across the the DPF, which is 1 or 2 when idle and 100+ under load, when clean.
Calculated soot g/litre
Last time the regen was run

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#6 2020-12-16 15:07:07

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

I think I'm getting my head around those readings............
With the advent of that 307HDI Rapier that gave us..... Me so much grief........... It was then I'm sure I found out that the FAP fluid helped bring down soot burning to a minimum requirement of 450C .........
usually a need to reach 6 or 700C .............

Hence don't force re-gen on grass or stationary on tar .......ETC

Since then I belive there's been a caveat that after a certain Vin number a different FAP fluid is required and I 'm also Led to believe that cars (it was a C4 that was being discussed in amongst AdBlue requirements of a truck) of a certain age would require AdBlue also possibly as well as (C4) FAP fluid..........
I have No Idea if this is relevant to commercial vehicles/Vans

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#7 2020-12-16 17:57:36

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 607

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

vaz2121 wrote:

I think I'm getting my head around those readings............
With the advent of that 307HDI Rapier that gave us..... Me so much grief........... It was then I'm sure I found out that the FAP fluid helped bring down soot burning to a minimum requirement of 450C .........
usually a need to reach 6 or 700C .............

Hence don't force re-gen on grass or stationary on tar .......ETC

Since then I belive there's been a caveat that after a certain Vin number a different FAP fluid is required and I 'm also Led to believe that cars (it was a C4 that was being discussed in amongst AdBlue requirements of a truck) of a certain age would require AdBlue also possibly as well as (C4) FAP fluid..........
I have No Idea if this is relevant to commercial vehicles/Vans

Never mind forcing a regen, I've seen temperature readings of over 600 during an normal active regen. Beats the hell out of me why the manufacturers didn't think that customers might want to know that this is going on. Seems like it would have been sensible to alert the customer that a regen is scheduled, and allow them to actually kick it off.
To help, I've wired an led up to the mirror heating wire, so that I can see when the regen is starting (the ECU cuts in a bunch of electrical loads, to get the engine working harder, to help raise the temperatures)

yes you are right the original eolys was replaced with eolys powerflex, which needs a lot less fluid, about 4ml per 80L fill. This means that the fluid should last 150k+ miles instead of 75k, not that anyone will actually confirm this.

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#8 2020-12-18 00:45:25

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

tee_cee wrote:

Beats the hell out of me why the manufacturers didn't think that customers might want to know that this is going on.

I find that quite surprising.....
Is this the norm for a PSA vehicle or is it something that's part of your issue/consequence leading too..... or something on this age of van ..............

Of Course you'd want to know especially with using a commercial vehicle and relying on it's earning ability ..................

A couple of acquaintances decided to go with diesels fitted with DPF's ...........
The first with a Vauxhall as a mobility Car and was warned by the dealer a Diesel may not be the car for him but he went ahead anyway even on collection there was a warning tag on car about the dangers of clogging the DPF............
The other a VW Caddy in fact ..... He's on His second Caddy this being a 1.6L TDI High output which he thinks is a better overall van than the 2.0L TDI High output of the first Van ..........Although I think his issue were self-inflicted Via chipping for more power ETC .................

But my point is those vehicles showed that Re-gen was under way that either of them told me they would go around By-pass or hold it in third to keep revs up until   job was done and not Park/switch off...........
Obviously from this best outcome was that of the GM diesel, That has up to now to the best of my knowledge although the stop-start went flaky had No DPF issues ..............

Come to think of it other than a Antipollution warning on the 307.......I don't remember anything else information wise ..........

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#9 2020-12-18 17:05:22

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 607

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

Reading stories from other DPF afflicted drivers, I assumed that this was the general approach by the manufacturers ie no indicators.
I have seen suggestions that people can tell by changes in engine tone or fuel consumption.

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#10 2020-12-18 20:41:52

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,311

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

As Luck would have it........ I saw the young guy (39) with the Caddy today......

His van indeed had a light on dash but this  apparently means that a passive re-gen failed and you should go do another an active re-gen...........
So it appears I've picked up on all this incorrectly ........ I've still to figure out how they know when it's on a re-gen then .... Unlees their all failed passive ones and their going for active re-gen .............

I have heard during MOT tests/plating tests and Ministry checks especially on Lorries with the facility .....  To fit a obd dongle and their able to detect foul play we'll call it when the software has been fiddled with to inject less Adblue .........
This to me has somewhat defeated the purpose when their removing the DPF to wash out with the steam cleaner / pressure washer fairly regularly I assume it'll detect if chipping takes it outside rules same as I've heard it's illegal to remove DPF and software to use vehicle and these dongles can detect all this ......apparently..........

Back in the day it was all down to finding out the formula of how much Fullers earth/Cat Litter you needed to strain red diesel through to take colour out of it ............
Lots of engine damage ensued as fuel fillters wern't coping ......... Long stories.......
Apparently it's just another check needing doing and more time & money to combat the high jinx............


Still this is not tackling yours..... Is this a case of to much fuel and not enough air hence the black smoke under load ? ..............
Maf Giving incorrect reading ................

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#11 2020-12-19 12:42:17

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 607

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

Well I'm in the final throws of getting my van back on the road, and will update on the other thread. Interesting that you mention red diesel though.
Passive regen is a continuous process as opposed to active, which is enabled and runs for maybe 20 minutes. So if the passive regen is not performing well, then eventually the DPF will clog up. Hence the "Italian tuneup" advice that is prevalent on all the forums. I can see the effect of passive burning of soot when the exhaust temperature rises on the motorway - the calculated soot value slows or reduces slightly. So overall it will reduce the need for an active regen.

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#12 2025-01-05 15:35:32

blahmartinblah
Member
Registered: 2025-01-05
Posts: 1

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

Hi tee_cee.

Sorry to bump your old thread - which I came across when searching on Google.

I'm a big fan of the Torque app, and have build extended PID files for some previous vehicles. I have a Peugeot Boxer with the DW10FUD engine, and Delphi DCM6.2 ECU, and would like to see if I can also display my DPF data in Torque. I was very excited by what you found in the Diagbox log files and have a couple of questions if you don't mind?

1. Do you have a PID file for your Expert that I could try/use for inspiration?
2. What version of Diagbox do you use? I have 9.125 - and there isn't a \AWroot\dwtr\SpareTrace folder. There are various log files there, but they are encrypted. I wonder if I need to try an older version.

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#13 2025-01-06 17:06:01

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 607

Re: ODB2 Extended PIDs

Hi, my engine is DW10CD with DCM3.5BR2 ecu and I'm using diagbox v7.58

These are the PIDs and formulas that I've found, but I only really use the dpf related ones


Air Circuit               
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR    Engine speed    21C98001    INT16(A:B)   
MP_DEBIT_AIR_MESURE    measured air flow    21CA8001    INT16(AM:AN)   
MP_CONSIGNE_DEBIT_AIR_a    air flow setting    21CA8001    INT16(AK:AL)   
MP_PRESSION_ATMOSPHERIQUE    atmospheric pressure    21CA8001    INT16(K:J)   
MP_CONSIGNE_PRESSION_TURBO    turbo pressure reference value    21CA8001    INT16(G:H)   
MP_PRESSION_TURBO_MESUREE    turbo pressure measured    21CA8001    INT16(I:J)   
MP_CONSIGNE_POSITION_TURBO    turbo position reference value    21CA8001    M   
MP_RECOPIE_POSITION_TURBO    turbo position repeat    21CA8001    N   
MP_RCOVANNETURBO    Turbo pressure electrovalve open cycle ratio    21CA8001    AI   
MP_CONSIGNE_POSITION_DOSEUR    Mixer position reference value    21CA8001    Q   
RECOPIE_POSITION_DOSEUR    Mixer position repeat    21CA8001    R   
RCOCDEDOSEUR    Open Cycle Ratio for the air mixer electrovalve    21CA8001    ((AG:AF)-1000)/10   
MP_CONSIGNE_POS_VANNE_EGR    EGR valve position reference value    21CA8001    U   
MP_RECOPIE_POSITION_VANNE_EGR    EGR valve position repeat    21CA8001    V   
MP_COMMANDE_EGR    EGR valve control Opening Cyclic Ratio    21CA8001    ((W:X)-1000)/10   
MP_CONSIGNE_POSITION_BYPASS_REFROIDISSEUR_EGR    EGR exchanger Bypass position reference value    21CA8001    Y   
RECOPIE_POSITION_BY_PASS_REFROIDISSEUR_EGR    EGR exchanger Bypass position repeat    21CA8001    Z   
MP_TEMP_CARB_C9    fuel temperature *1@\*    21C98001    AC-50   
MP_TEMP_ADMI_DEBITMETRE    air flow sensor air temperature    21CA8001    E-50   
MP_TEMP_DEB    Air temperature in the inlet manifold    21CA8001    F-50   
               
Aircon               
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR    Engine speed    21CD8001    INT16(A:B)   
MP_TEMPERATURE_EAU_b    coolant temperature    21CD8001    D-50   
MP_PRESSION_CIRCUIT_CLIMATISATION_a    air conditioning circuit pressure@\*    21CD8001    K   
MP_CONSIGNE_VITESSE_GVM_01    Fan speed *1 setting@\*1           
MP_MESURE_VITESSE_GMV    Measurement of the cooling fan speed           
MP_CONSIGNE_VITESSE_GVM_02    Fan speed *1 setting@\*2           
TENSION_CAPTEUR_NIVEAU_HUILE    Oil level sensor voltage    21CD8001    N   
               
Electrical               
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR    Engine speed    21C98001    INT16(A:B)   
MP_TENSION_BATTERIE1    battery voltage    21CC8001    P/10   
MP_CONSIGNE_DE_CHARGE_PROGRESSIVE_ALTERNATEUR_a    alternator progressive charge reference value    21CC8001    N   
TENSION_ALIMENTATION_5V_NUMERO_01    Supply voltage *1V n°*2@\*5@\*1    21CC8001    INT16(Q:R)   
MP_COMMANDE_RELAIS_PUISSANCE    power relay control           
MP_ETATCDEDEM    Starter control status           
MP_ETAT_DEMANDE_DEMARREUR    Status of the starting request           
MP_COMMANDE_CHAUFFAGE_ADDITIONNEL_a    Status of the additional heating control           
               
Exhaust line               
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR    Engine speed    21C98001    INT16(A:B)   
MP_ETAT_REGENERATION    Status of the regeneration           
MP_MASSE_TOTALE_SUIE_DANS_FAP    total weight of soot in the PEF    21CB8001    INT16(J:K)/1000   
MP_TEMPERATURE_FAP    Particle emission filter temperature    21CB8001    INT16(Z:AA)   
MP_PRESSION_DIFFERENTIELLE_FILTRE_A_PARTICULES    difference in pressure between particulate emission filter input/output    21CB8001    INT16(P:Q)   
MP_TEMP_ADMI_DEBITMETRE    air flow sensor air temperature    21CA8001    E-50    possible 21cb8001 AH
MP_TEMP_DEB    Air temperature in the inlet manifold    21CA8001    F-50   
MP_DEMANDE_ACTIVATION_CONSOMMATEURS    Power consuming equipment activation request    21CB8001    Bit 5&6 AB   
VOLADDRESERVOIR    Amount of additive in the additive tank    21CB8001    INT16(T:U)   
NIVEAU_MINIMUM_ADDITIF_ATTEINT    minimum level of additive reached           
MP_VOLUME_TOTAL_ADDITIF_INJECTE    Cumulative total additive weight in the particulate filter           
MP_VOLUME_RESERVOIR_ADDITIF    additive reservoir *1 volume@\*    21CB8001    INT16(R:S)   
MP_DISTANCE_PARCOURUE_DEPUIS_ECHANGE_FAP    distance travelled since particulate filter replacement    21CB8001    INT24(AI:AJ:AK)   
MP_DISTANCE_PARCOURUE_DEPUIS_DERNIERE_REGENERATION    distance travelled since the last regeneration    21CB8001    INT16(AC:AD)   
DISTANCE_MOYENNE_ENTRE_LES_10_DERNIERES_REGENERATIONS    average distance between the last *1 regenerations@\*10    21CB8001    INT16(AE:AF)   
MP_DEGRE_ENCRASSEMENT_FAP_EN_SUIES    degree of clogging of the PEF with soot           
MP_DIST_AVANT_REMPL_FAP    Distance remaining before replacement of the FAP    21CB8001    INT24(M:N:O)   
MP_AUTORISATION_REGENERATION    Authorisation of regeneration    21CB8001    Bit 5&6 AB   
MP_CAPC_EFFEC_COURT_TERME    Short term regeneration capacity           
MP_CAPC_EFFEC_LONG_TERME    Long term regeneration capacity    21CB8001    AH    possible 21CA8001  E
CA_RICHESSE_CALCULEE_SONDE_A_OXYGENE    mixture calculated by the O2 sensor    21CB8001    INT16(E:F)/1000   
CHAUFFSONDEO2    Activation of the heating of the oxygen sensor           
               
Fuel circuit               
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR    Engine speed    21C98001    INT16(A:B)   
MP_DEBIT_INJECTE_MESURE    measured injected flow    21C98001    INT16(O:P)/10   
MP_SYNCHRONISATION_AAC_VILEBREQUIN    camshaft/crankshaft synchronisation           
MP_CONSIGNE_PRESSION_RAIL1    Setting for the fuel rail pressure    21C98001    INT16(K:L)/10   
MP_PRESSION_CARBURANT_MESURE    measured fuel pressure    21C98001    INT16(M:N)/10   
MP_COURANT_REGULATEUR_DE_DEBIT_IMV    Flow regulator current           
MP_ETAT_ACTIVATION_STRATEGIES_CORRECTION_OUVERTURE_INJECTEUR    injector opening correction strategies activation status           
RCO_COMMANDE_REGULATION_DEBIT_CARBURANT    Open cycle ratio controlling the regulation of the fuel flow    21C98001    J   
MP_TEMPS_INJECTION_CYLINDRE_01    cylinder *1 injection time@\* 1    21C98001    INT16(AG:AH)/100   
MP_TEMPS_INJECTION_CYLINDRE_03    cylinder *1 injection time@\* 3    21C98001    INT16(AI:AJ)/100   
MP_TEMPS_INJECTION_CYLINDRE_04    cylinder *1 injection time@\* 4    21C98001    INT16(AK:AL)/100   
MP_TEMPS_INJECTION_CYLINDRE_02    cylinder *1 injection time@\* 2    21C98001    INT16(AM:AN)/100   
MP_TEMP_CARB_C9    fuel temperature *1@\*    21C98001    AC-50   
MP_KILOMETRAGE_FIN_DERNIERE_BOUCLE_RECALAGE_PICL    End mileage of the last PICL resetting loop    21C98001    INT24(CZ:DA:DB)    pos 103
MP_CORRECTION_ACYCLISME_INJECTEUR_1    Correction of acyclism on injector *1@\*1    21C98001    INT16(DC:DD)-500   
MP_CORRECTION_ACYCLISME_INJECTEUR_3    Correction of acyclism on injector *1@\*3    21C98001    INT16(DE:DF)-500   
MP_CORRECTION_ACYCLISME_INJECTEUR_4    Correction of acyclism on injector *1@\*4    21C98001    INT16(DH:DH)-500   
MP_CORRECTION_ACYCLISME_INJECTEUR_2    Correction of acyclism on injector *1@\*2    21C98001    INT16(DI:DJ)-500   
MP_ECART_REGIME_MOTEUR_CYLINDRE_MOTEUR_1    Difference in engine speed on engine cylinder *1@\*1    21C98001    INT16(AU:AV)/16 -8000   
MP_ECART_REGIME_MOTEUR_CYLINDRE_MOTEUR_3    Difference in engine speed on engine cylinder *1@\*3    21C98001    INT16(AW:AX)/16 -8000   
MP_ECART_REGIME_MOTEUR_CYLINDRE_MOTEUR_4    Difference in engine speed on engine cylinder *1@\*4    21C98001    INT16(AY:AZ)/16 -8000   
MP_ECART_REGIME_MOTEUR_CYLINDRE_MOTEUR_2    Difference in engine speed on engine cylinder *1@\*2    21C98001    INT16(BA:BB)/16 -8000   
               
Immobiliser               
PID 21C88001               
MP_ETAT_VERROUILLAGE_DEVERROUILLAGE_CALCULTATEUR    control unit condition           
MP_ETAT_PROGRAMMATION_ANTI_DEMARRAGE    status of the coded engine immobiliser programming           
MP_PB_TRANSMISSION_CODE_DEVERROUILLAGE    problems detected when transmitting the unlock code           
               
Misc               
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR    Engine speed           
MP_SYNCHRONISATION_AAC_VILEBREQUIN    camshaft/crankshaft synchronisation    21C88001    F   
MP_VITESSE_VEHICULE_a    vehicle speed@\*           
TENSION_SIGNAL_PEDALE_ACCELERATEUR_01    accelerator pedal signal voltage *1@\*1    21CC8001    INT16(E:F)   
TENSION_SIGNAL_PEDALE_ACCELERATEUR_02    accelerator pedal signal voltage *1@\*2    21CC8001    INT16(G:H)   
MP_POSITION_DE_PEDALE_ACCELERATEUR    accelerator pedal position    21C98001    D   
MP_INFO_POINT_DUR    Accelerator pedal point of resistance information           
MP_TYPE_BOITE    Gearbox type           
MP_RAPPORT_BOITE_DE_VITESSES    gear ratio *1@\*    21CC8001    J    1-6 & 9
MP_ETAT_CAPTEUR_POINT_MORT    Condition of the neutral sensor           
MP_ETAT_CONTACTEUR_DE_FREIN_PRINCIPAL    principal brake pedal           
PEDALE_FREIN_REDONDANT    redundant brake pedal           
MP_VITESSE_CONSIGNE_REGULATION_DE_VITESSE    Cruise control speed setting           
MP_ETAT_REGULATION_VITESSE    cruise control status           
MP_VITESSE_CONSIGNE_LIMITATION_DE_VITESSE    Speed limiter speed setting           
MP_ETATLV    speed limiter status           
MP_ETAT_CONTACTEURS_FREIN_EMBRAYAGE    Status of the limiting of the vehicle speed           
MP_PEDALE_EMBRAYAGE    clutch pedal    21CC8001    D   
MP_VAL_POSITION_EMBRAYAGE    Value of the clutch pedal position    21C78001    AB   
MP_ETAT_MOTEUR    *1 engine status@\*    21C78001    AC    21C88001
MP_MESURE_MANOCONTACT_PRESSION_HUILE    oil pressure switch measurement    21CD8001    L   
               
    Battery - CAN DIAG bus           
    Battery current    21C0    (1000- INT24(C:D:E))/1000   
    Battery Voltage    21C0    (INT16(A:B)+3000)/1000

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