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I've been keeping myself busy trying to work out how to display live engine parameters on my 2015 Expert.
Apart from a few basic parameters that have standard PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs there's a whole bunch of proprietary extended PIDs that are not public. There is very little info about this on the net, though I did find some details about a C4 on a Russian website https://www.drive2.com/l/498229676427182085/
From what I can see, unfortunately, these PIDs are not standardised across different engines
As it turns if you have Diagbox, then the data logs can reveal these extended PIds, and you can then load them into the Torque app.
It may be a little niche, but as a start I've documented an overview of the basic process here
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I've been keeping myself busy trying to work out how to display live engine parameters on my 2015 Expert.
Apart from a few basic parameters that have standard PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs there's a whole bunch of proprietary extended PIDs that are not public. There is very little info about this on the net, though I did find some details about a C4 on a Russian website https://www.drive2.com/l/498229676427182085/
From what I can see, unfortunately, these PIDs are not standardised across different enginesAs it turns if you have Diagbox, then the data logs can reveal these extended PIds, and you can then load them into the Torque app.
It may be a little niche, but as a start I've documented an overview of the basic process here
This will be very handy for anybody or myself in the future as the need to move onto "newer vans" if I can ever get my head around it .............
{Showing my ignorance}
One thing I need to ask is does this Diagbox need the Lexia OBD thingy.......
And does this work on the cloned china versions............
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tee_cee wrote:I've been keeping myself busy trying to work out how to display live engine parameters on my 2015 Expert.
Apart from a few basic parameters that have standard PIDs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OBD-II_PIDs there's a whole bunch of proprietary extended PIDs that are not public. There is very little info about this on the net, though I did find some details about a C4 on a Russian website https://www.drive2.com/l/498229676427182085/
From what I can see, unfortunately, these PIDs are not standardised across different enginesAs it turns if you have Diagbox, then the data logs can reveal these extended PIds, and you can then load them into the Torque app.
It may be a little niche, but as a start I've documented an overview of the basic process here
This will be very handy for anybody or myself in the future as the need to move onto "newer vans" if I can ever get my head around it .............
{Showing my ignorance}One thing I need to ask is does this Diagbox need the Lexia OBD thingy.......
And does this work on the cloned china versions............
Yes, you will need the hardware Lexia to connect (they are all Chinese closes). The software (diagbox) can be a right pain to install - base install then a lot of upgrades, though I do see some people on ebay selling what looks like a single install.
It's fine for tinkering with options, like door locking, and reading fault codes. However a laptop is not really practical for live data.
Having this on the dash is much better I think.
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I can't deny your thought of monitoring Live data in front of you rather than laptop..........
If you have that facility .......
I'm curious to the 4 parameters that you are showing in your pic ..........
The bottom two..... I'd say easy to pick out as DPF (FAP) ........
the other two not So.............
The first especially ...... The Temp has me flummoxed entirely ..............
The Highest value= 296C Lowest 100C ..............
That is to hot for engine cooling ...........
And to low to Burn off soot in a DPF even with the aid of injected FAP fluid I beleive 450C is necessary ...........
All this before I decide what pressure is being monitored ............
{Again it may be DPF But Millibar seems to me to not be enough Differential Pressure for that} ..............
{I Could so easily be wrong about it all}
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At the moment I need to watch what's happening with the DPF - and will post on separate thread shortly.
So I'm monitoring
Exhaust temperature, which is normally 150 to 250, rising to 450+ when regenerating.
Differential pressure across the the DPF, which is 1 or 2 when idle and 100+ under load, when clean.
Calculated soot g/litre
Last time the regen was run
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I think I'm getting my head around those readings............
With the advent of that 307HDI Rapier that gave us..... Me so much grief........... It was then I'm sure I found out that the FAP fluid helped bring down soot burning to a minimum requirement of 450C .........
usually a need to reach 6 or 700C .............
Hence don't force re-gen on grass or stationary on tar .......ETC
Since then I belive there's been a caveat that after a certain Vin number a different FAP fluid is required and I 'm also Led to believe that cars (it was a C4 that was being discussed in amongst AdBlue requirements of a truck) of a certain age would require AdBlue also possibly as well as (C4) FAP fluid..........
I have No Idea if this is relevant to commercial vehicles/Vans
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I think I'm getting my head around those readings............
With the advent of that 307HDI Rapier that gave us..... Me so much grief........... It was then I'm sure I found out that the FAP fluid helped bring down soot burning to a minimum requirement of 450C .........
usually a need to reach 6 or 700C .............Hence don't force re-gen on grass or stationary on tar .......ETC
Since then I belive there's been a caveat that after a certain Vin number a different FAP fluid is required and I 'm also Led to believe that cars (it was a C4 that was being discussed in amongst AdBlue requirements of a truck) of a certain age would require AdBlue also possibly as well as (C4) FAP fluid..........
I have No Idea if this is relevant to commercial vehicles/Vans
Never mind forcing a regen, I've seen temperature readings of over 600 during an normal active regen. Beats the hell out of me why the manufacturers didn't think that customers might want to know that this is going on. Seems like it would have been sensible to alert the customer that a regen is scheduled, and allow them to actually kick it off.
To help, I've wired an led up to the mirror heating wire, so that I can see when the regen is starting (the ECU cuts in a bunch of electrical loads, to get the engine working harder, to help raise the temperatures)
yes you are right the original eolys was replaced with eolys powerflex, which needs a lot less fluid, about 4ml per 80L fill. This means that the fluid should last 150k+ miles instead of 75k, not that anyone will actually confirm this.
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Beats the hell out of me why the manufacturers didn't think that customers might want to know that this is going on.
I find that quite surprising.....
Is this the norm for a PSA vehicle or is it something that's part of your issue/consequence leading too..... or something on this age of van ..............
Of Course you'd want to know especially with using a commercial vehicle and relying on it's earning ability ..................
A couple of acquaintances decided to go with diesels fitted with DPF's ...........
The first with a Vauxhall as a mobility Car and was warned by the dealer a Diesel may not be the car for him but he went ahead anyway even on collection there was a warning tag on car about the dangers of clogging the DPF............
The other a VW Caddy in fact ..... He's on His second Caddy this being a 1.6L TDI High output which he thinks is a better overall van than the 2.0L TDI High output of the first Van ..........Although I think his issue were self-inflicted Via chipping for more power ETC .................
But my point is those vehicles showed that Re-gen was under way that either of them told me they would go around By-pass or hold it in third to keep revs up until job was done and not Park/switch off...........
Obviously from this best outcome was that of the GM diesel, That has up to now to the best of my knowledge although the stop-start went flaky had No DPF issues ..............
Come to think of it other than a Antipollution warning on the 307.......I don't remember anything else information wise ..........
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Reading stories from other DPF afflicted drivers, I assumed that this was the general approach by the manufacturers ie no indicators.
I have seen suggestions that people can tell by changes in engine tone or fuel consumption.
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As Luck would have it........ I saw the young guy (39) with the Caddy today......
His van indeed had a light on dash but this apparently means that a passive re-gen failed and you should go do another an active re-gen...........
So it appears I've picked up on all this incorrectly ........ I've still to figure out how they know when it's on a re-gen then .... Unlees their all failed passive ones and their going for active re-gen .............
I have heard during MOT tests/plating tests and Ministry checks especially on Lorries with the facility ..... To fit a obd dongle and their able to detect foul play we'll call it when the software has been fiddled with to inject less Adblue .........
This to me has somewhat defeated the purpose when their removing the DPF to wash out with the steam cleaner / pressure washer fairly regularly I assume it'll detect if chipping takes it outside rules same as I've heard it's illegal to remove DPF and software to use vehicle and these dongles can detect all this ......apparently..........
Back in the day it was all down to finding out the formula of how much Fullers earth/Cat Litter you needed to strain red diesel through to take colour out of it ............
Lots of engine damage ensued as fuel fillters wern't coping ......... Long stories.......
Apparently it's just another check needing doing and more time & money to combat the high jinx............
Still this is not tackling yours..... Is this a case of to much fuel and not enough air hence the black smoke under load ? ..............
Maf Giving incorrect reading ................
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Well I'm in the final throws of getting my van back on the road, and will update on the other thread. Interesting that you mention red diesel though.
Passive regen is a continuous process as opposed to active, which is enabled and runs for maybe 20 minutes. So if the passive regen is not performing well, then eventually the DPF will clog up. Hence the "Italian tuneup" advice that is prevalent on all the forums. I can see the effect of passive burning of soot when the exhaust temperature rises on the motorway - the calculated soot value slows or reduces slightly. So overall it will reduce the need for an active regen.
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Hi tee_cee.
Sorry to bump your old thread - which I came across when searching on Google.
I'm a big fan of the Torque app, and have build extended PID files for some previous vehicles. I have a Peugeot Boxer with the DW10FUD engine, and Delphi DCM6.2 ECU, and would like to see if I can also display my DPF data in Torque. I was very excited by what you found in the Diagbox log files and have a couple of questions if you don't mind?
1. Do you have a PID file for your Expert that I could try/use for inspiration?
2. What version of Diagbox do you use? I have 9.125 - and there isn't a \AWroot\dwtr\SpareTrace folder. There are various log files there, but they are encrypted. I wonder if I need to try an older version.
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Hi, my engine is DW10CD with DCM3.5BR2 ecu and I'm using diagbox v7.58
These are the PIDs and formulas that I've found, but I only really use the dpf related ones
Air Circuit
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR Engine speed 21C98001 INT16(A:B)
MP_DEBIT_AIR_MESURE measured air flow 21CA8001 INT16(AM:AN)
MP_CONSIGNE_DEBIT_AIR_a air flow setting 21CA8001 INT16(AK:AL)
MP_PRESSION_ATMOSPHERIQUE atmospheric pressure 21CA8001 INT16(K:J)
MP_CONSIGNE_PRESSION_TURBO turbo pressure reference value 21CA8001 INT16(G:H)
MP_PRESSION_TURBO_MESUREE turbo pressure measured 21CA8001 INT16(I:J)
MP_CONSIGNE_POSITION_TURBO turbo position reference value 21CA8001 M
MP_RECOPIE_POSITION_TURBO turbo position repeat 21CA8001 N
MP_RCOVANNETURBO Turbo pressure electrovalve open cycle ratio 21CA8001 AI
MP_CONSIGNE_POSITION_DOSEUR Mixer position reference value 21CA8001 Q
RECOPIE_POSITION_DOSEUR Mixer position repeat 21CA8001 R
RCOCDEDOSEUR Open Cycle Ratio for the air mixer electrovalve 21CA8001 ((AG:AF)-1000)/10
MP_CONSIGNE_POS_VANNE_EGR EGR valve position reference value 21CA8001 U
MP_RECOPIE_POSITION_VANNE_EGR EGR valve position repeat 21CA8001 V
MP_COMMANDE_EGR EGR valve control Opening Cyclic Ratio 21CA8001 ((W:X)-1000)/10
MP_CONSIGNE_POSITION_BYPASS_REFROIDISSEUR_EGR EGR exchanger Bypass position reference value 21CA8001 Y
RECOPIE_POSITION_BY_PASS_REFROIDISSEUR_EGR EGR exchanger Bypass position repeat 21CA8001 Z
MP_TEMP_CARB_C9 fuel temperature *1@\* 21C98001 AC-50
MP_TEMP_ADMI_DEBITMETRE air flow sensor air temperature 21CA8001 E-50
MP_TEMP_DEB Air temperature in the inlet manifold 21CA8001 F-50
Aircon
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR Engine speed 21CD8001 INT16(A:B)
MP_TEMPERATURE_EAU_b coolant temperature 21CD8001 D-50
MP_PRESSION_CIRCUIT_CLIMATISATION_a air conditioning circuit pressure@\* 21CD8001 K
MP_CONSIGNE_VITESSE_GVM_01 Fan speed *1 setting@\*1
MP_MESURE_VITESSE_GMV Measurement of the cooling fan speed
MP_CONSIGNE_VITESSE_GVM_02 Fan speed *1 setting@\*2
TENSION_CAPTEUR_NIVEAU_HUILE Oil level sensor voltage 21CD8001 N
Electrical
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR Engine speed 21C98001 INT16(A:B)
MP_TENSION_BATTERIE1 battery voltage 21CC8001 P/10
MP_CONSIGNE_DE_CHARGE_PROGRESSIVE_ALTERNATEUR_a alternator progressive charge reference value 21CC8001 N
TENSION_ALIMENTATION_5V_NUMERO_01 Supply voltage *1V n°*2@\*5@\*1 21CC8001 INT16(Q:R)
MP_COMMANDE_RELAIS_PUISSANCE power relay control
MP_ETATCDEDEM Starter control status
MP_ETAT_DEMANDE_DEMARREUR Status of the starting request
MP_COMMANDE_CHAUFFAGE_ADDITIONNEL_a Status of the additional heating control
Exhaust line
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR Engine speed 21C98001 INT16(A:B)
MP_ETAT_REGENERATION Status of the regeneration
MP_MASSE_TOTALE_SUIE_DANS_FAP total weight of soot in the PEF 21CB8001 INT16(J:K)/1000
MP_TEMPERATURE_FAP Particle emission filter temperature 21CB8001 INT16(Z:AA)
MP_PRESSION_DIFFERENTIELLE_FILTRE_A_PARTICULES difference in pressure between particulate emission filter input/output 21CB8001 INT16(P:Q)
MP_TEMP_ADMI_DEBITMETRE air flow sensor air temperature 21CA8001 E-50 possible 21cb8001 AH
MP_TEMP_DEB Air temperature in the inlet manifold 21CA8001 F-50
MP_DEMANDE_ACTIVATION_CONSOMMATEURS Power consuming equipment activation request 21CB8001 Bit 5&6 AB
VOLADDRESERVOIR Amount of additive in the additive tank 21CB8001 INT16(T:U)
NIVEAU_MINIMUM_ADDITIF_ATTEINT minimum level of additive reached
MP_VOLUME_TOTAL_ADDITIF_INJECTE Cumulative total additive weight in the particulate filter
MP_VOLUME_RESERVOIR_ADDITIF additive reservoir *1 volume@\* 21CB8001 INT16(R:S)
MP_DISTANCE_PARCOURUE_DEPUIS_ECHANGE_FAP distance travelled since particulate filter replacement 21CB8001 INT24(AI:AJ:AK)
MP_DISTANCE_PARCOURUE_DEPUIS_DERNIERE_REGENERATION distance travelled since the last regeneration 21CB8001 INT16(AC:AD)
DISTANCE_MOYENNE_ENTRE_LES_10_DERNIERES_REGENERATIONS average distance between the last *1 regenerations@\*10 21CB8001 INT16(AE:AF)
MP_DEGRE_ENCRASSEMENT_FAP_EN_SUIES degree of clogging of the PEF with soot
MP_DIST_AVANT_REMPL_FAP Distance remaining before replacement of the FAP 21CB8001 INT24(M:N:O)
MP_AUTORISATION_REGENERATION Authorisation of regeneration 21CB8001 Bit 5&6 AB
MP_CAPC_EFFEC_COURT_TERME Short term regeneration capacity
MP_CAPC_EFFEC_LONG_TERME Long term regeneration capacity 21CB8001 AH possible 21CA8001 E
CA_RICHESSE_CALCULEE_SONDE_A_OXYGENE mixture calculated by the O2 sensor 21CB8001 INT16(E:F)/1000
CHAUFFSONDEO2 Activation of the heating of the oxygen sensor
Fuel circuit
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR Engine speed 21C98001 INT16(A:B)
MP_DEBIT_INJECTE_MESURE measured injected flow 21C98001 INT16(O:P)/10
MP_SYNCHRONISATION_AAC_VILEBREQUIN camshaft/crankshaft synchronisation
MP_CONSIGNE_PRESSION_RAIL1 Setting for the fuel rail pressure 21C98001 INT16(K:L)/10
MP_PRESSION_CARBURANT_MESURE measured fuel pressure 21C98001 INT16(M:N)/10
MP_COURANT_REGULATEUR_DE_DEBIT_IMV Flow regulator current
MP_ETAT_ACTIVATION_STRATEGIES_CORRECTION_OUVERTURE_INJECTEUR injector opening correction strategies activation status
RCO_COMMANDE_REGULATION_DEBIT_CARBURANT Open cycle ratio controlling the regulation of the fuel flow 21C98001 J
MP_TEMPS_INJECTION_CYLINDRE_01 cylinder *1 injection time@\* 1 21C98001 INT16(AG:AH)/100
MP_TEMPS_INJECTION_CYLINDRE_03 cylinder *1 injection time@\* 3 21C98001 INT16(AI:AJ)/100
MP_TEMPS_INJECTION_CYLINDRE_04 cylinder *1 injection time@\* 4 21C98001 INT16(AK:AL)/100
MP_TEMPS_INJECTION_CYLINDRE_02 cylinder *1 injection time@\* 2 21C98001 INT16(AM:AN)/100
MP_TEMP_CARB_C9 fuel temperature *1@\* 21C98001 AC-50
MP_KILOMETRAGE_FIN_DERNIERE_BOUCLE_RECALAGE_PICL End mileage of the last PICL resetting loop 21C98001 INT24(CZ:DA:DB) pos 103
MP_CORRECTION_ACYCLISME_INJECTEUR_1 Correction of acyclism on injector *1@\*1 21C98001 INT16(DC:DD)-500
MP_CORRECTION_ACYCLISME_INJECTEUR_3 Correction of acyclism on injector *1@\*3 21C98001 INT16(DE:DF)-500
MP_CORRECTION_ACYCLISME_INJECTEUR_4 Correction of acyclism on injector *1@\*4 21C98001 INT16(DH:DH)-500
MP_CORRECTION_ACYCLISME_INJECTEUR_2 Correction of acyclism on injector *1@\*2 21C98001 INT16(DI:DJ)-500
MP_ECART_REGIME_MOTEUR_CYLINDRE_MOTEUR_1 Difference in engine speed on engine cylinder *1@\*1 21C98001 INT16(AU:AV)/16 -8000
MP_ECART_REGIME_MOTEUR_CYLINDRE_MOTEUR_3 Difference in engine speed on engine cylinder *1@\*3 21C98001 INT16(AW:AX)/16 -8000
MP_ECART_REGIME_MOTEUR_CYLINDRE_MOTEUR_4 Difference in engine speed on engine cylinder *1@\*4 21C98001 INT16(AY:AZ)/16 -8000
MP_ECART_REGIME_MOTEUR_CYLINDRE_MOTEUR_2 Difference in engine speed on engine cylinder *1@\*2 21C98001 INT16(BA:BB)/16 -8000
Immobiliser
PID 21C88001
MP_ETAT_VERROUILLAGE_DEVERROUILLAGE_CALCULTATEUR control unit condition
MP_ETAT_PROGRAMMATION_ANTI_DEMARRAGE status of the coded engine immobiliser programming
MP_PB_TRANSMISSION_CODE_DEVERROUILLAGE problems detected when transmitting the unlock code
Misc
MP_REGIME_MOTEUR Engine speed
MP_SYNCHRONISATION_AAC_VILEBREQUIN camshaft/crankshaft synchronisation 21C88001 F
MP_VITESSE_VEHICULE_a vehicle speed@\*
TENSION_SIGNAL_PEDALE_ACCELERATEUR_01 accelerator pedal signal voltage *1@\*1 21CC8001 INT16(E:F)
TENSION_SIGNAL_PEDALE_ACCELERATEUR_02 accelerator pedal signal voltage *1@\*2 21CC8001 INT16(G:H)
MP_POSITION_DE_PEDALE_ACCELERATEUR accelerator pedal position 21C98001 D
MP_INFO_POINT_DUR Accelerator pedal point of resistance information
MP_TYPE_BOITE Gearbox type
MP_RAPPORT_BOITE_DE_VITESSES gear ratio *1@\* 21CC8001 J 1-6 & 9
MP_ETAT_CAPTEUR_POINT_MORT Condition of the neutral sensor
MP_ETAT_CONTACTEUR_DE_FREIN_PRINCIPAL principal brake pedal
PEDALE_FREIN_REDONDANT redundant brake pedal
MP_VITESSE_CONSIGNE_REGULATION_DE_VITESSE Cruise control speed setting
MP_ETAT_REGULATION_VITESSE cruise control status
MP_VITESSE_CONSIGNE_LIMITATION_DE_VITESSE Speed limiter speed setting
MP_ETATLV speed limiter status
MP_ETAT_CONTACTEURS_FREIN_EMBRAYAGE Status of the limiting of the vehicle speed
MP_PEDALE_EMBRAYAGE clutch pedal 21CC8001 D
MP_VAL_POSITION_EMBRAYAGE Value of the clutch pedal position 21C78001 AB
MP_ETAT_MOTEUR *1 engine status@\* 21C78001 AC 21C88001
MP_MESURE_MANOCONTACT_PRESSION_HUILE oil pressure switch measurement 21CD8001 L
Battery - CAN DIAG bus
Battery current 21C0 (1000- INT24(C:D:E))/1000
Battery Voltage 21C0 (INT16(A:B)+3000)/1000
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