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#1 2025-02-01 16:20:17

p359
Member
Registered: 2025-02-01
Posts: 9

1998 Dispatch starter questions

Hi! Just inherited an old 98 (I think) Dispatch that will not start. Basics covered I think such as checked battery is good and charged up, terminals are clean, no fuses appear blown.

The situation is turn key, gloplug light goes out. Key turned to crank. I get a high pitch noise only like a power drill.  Like the starter isn't engaged to the engine gear?

Pulled off the starter, it's been replaced before I think as it's less dirty than the rest of engine! Put 12v on it, solenoid pulls and motor spins.  So appears ok (but I'm new to this)

Put it back then I've attached a wire separate to the starter small terminal in place from battery directly (with ignition on also) after and same result, solenoid clunks nicely but high pitched only

Some pics attached hopefully.  Any pointers would be great, cheers all

IMG-20250201-WA0003.jpg
IMG-20250201-WA0002.jpg
IMG-20250201-WA0001.jpg
IMG_20250131_144317383_HDR.jpeg

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#2 2025-02-01 16:32:10

kenbw2
Administrator
From: Preston
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 1,430

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Don't these starters normally push out to engage with the flywheel, then retract afterwards? Does that happen when you bench test it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFsl5r34lCI


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#3 2025-02-01 18:55:31

RegW
Member
From: Bristol
Registered: 2024-04-21
Posts: 223

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

when you get that noise its usually because the starter is spinning unengaged
does it 'kick' when you bench test it?
A good starter will feel like it wants to jump out of your hand unless you have a
very good grip on it.
Its obviously an aftermarket starter made in china that may or may not be suitable

The 'piggy back' bit is a solenoid with two functions
1 pull a lever to engage the toothed dog wheel with the flywheel teeth
2 at this time it should close the internal contacts to energise the motor which 
spins the engine over

You can see the witness marks on the flywheel teeth where previous starters have
fully engaged, but there are also impact marks where it hasn't cleanly engaged
I'm wondering if that's the correct starter for the engine and it has the full
travel needed to operate properly?.
I'd be doing some measuring and bench tests to investigate this.
If we use the contact line between the bell housing and starter motor as a datum
them measure the depth of the witness lines compared to the  the travel of the
dog wheel when energised we can easily get an idea.

Another possibility could be poor grounding/poor relays or current flow.
The solenoid needs power to pull and hold the dog wheel in position for the motor to turn the engine.
if current ( power) is restricted for any reason, when the starter motor kicks in
it could rob power from the solenoid causing it to retract.
Using jump leads directly from the battery and fly lead to th solenoid
can help test for this


When all else fails, RTFM  - 2006 Expert 2.0 HDI/110

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#4 2025-02-01 19:16:06

p359
Member
Registered: 2025-02-01
Posts: 9

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Thanks both.

1 Definitely pops out when power applied, seems good pop also.

2 In terms of pulling out of my hands when powers up, a little but not massively so. Very minor kick is best description

3 About the teeth, that's great you can see that and I'll pull it back off the engine tomorrow and do some measurements. Be tricky to squeeze in there but completely get where you coming from. It's definitely not original so could be teeth not meshing now it's worn off a bit.

Great pointers so appreciate the help both. I'll post back any results. Thanks

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#5 2025-02-01 19:48:44

RegW
Member
From: Bristol
Registered: 2024-04-21
Posts: 223

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

A 'minor kick ' is somewhat concerning, there should be a very definite and strong torque reaction when energised
I tested a motorbike one recently and even that had to be firmly held in place.
Chinese stuff can be good to very poor, I'd have it apart to check the brushes and commutator
plus the heavy duty contacts for arcing damage that will restrict current flow.
if the brushes look ok but its all sooty, get some brake or carb cleaner in there to rinse it all out

Last edited by RegW (2025-02-01 19:55:56)


When all else fails, RTFM  - 2006 Expert 2.0 HDI/110

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#6 2025-02-08 12:59:45

p359
Member
Registered: 2025-02-01
Posts: 9

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Hi. Finally some time free to get back to this. Took starter back off and checked brushes, they look clean but pics somewhere here for more knowledgeable eyes. Back together and still the lack of kick I think points to this being a bit dud.  The engine gear turns when the crank pulley is turned so the shaft seems ok.

mini_IMG_20250208_105018876_HDR.jpeg

mini_IMG_20250208_110310165_HDR.jpeg

mini_IMG_20250208_111421084_HDR.jpeg

Then I've looked online for starters.  I've put the van reg into for example autodoc.co.uk and the ones come up listed:

Number of Teeth: 11\\13

and another below it as :

Number of Teeth: 9,10

and again another as:

Number of Teeth: 10-11, 12-13

So this is confusing!  Any way I can suss out what the van should have, given this one now is not stock.  It has 13 teeth but maybe wrong?

I've measured the teeth on the engine side using blue cloth, teeth are 7mm centre to centre

mini_IMG_20250208_111703115_HDR.jpeg

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#7 2025-02-08 13:09:25

p359
Member
Registered: 2025-02-01
Posts: 9

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Vid attached if I have this right smile VID-20250208-WA0000.zip

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#8 2025-02-08 14:58:05

RegW
Member
From: Bristol
Registered: 2024-04-21
Posts: 223

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Just watched the vid and to use a technical term, that's weak as piss  tongue
it's been a while since I bench tested a car/van starter but recall getting a hell of a lot more torque reaction than that
and the fact you didn't need to hold it down suggests this as well.

What is that grainy looking stuff on the planetary gear?
The brushes look OK but
did you check the commutator for wear and bridging?

Last edited by RegW (2025-02-08 15:04:10)


When all else fails, RTFM  - 2006 Expert 2.0 HDI/110

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#9 2025-02-08 15:17:32

p359
Member
Registered: 2025-02-01
Posts: 9

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

RegW wrote:

What is that grainy looking stuff on the planetary gear?
The brushes look OK but
did you check the commutator for wear and bridging?

The grey stuff looks like some sort of teflon type grease?  I'll try clean it all off and see how it works after just as that's something fairly easy.  Commutator and bridging, it looked pretty good but will double check.

Any ideas how to decide on teeth number for a replacement, you sound pretty clued up?  My thinking is as I'm getting another, I'll pull the gear off this one somehow and then see if it meshes by hand/torch.  Bit destructive but not much to lose at this stage!

Last edited by p359 (2025-02-08 15:18:06)

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#10 2025-02-08 15:23:28

RegW
Member
From: Bristol
Registered: 2024-04-21
Posts: 223

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Another test I'd do while its on the bench is by pass the solenoid and
apply the battery power directly to the motor terminal.
You have to be careful not to short the lead on the case of course so
some masking tape or similar can be used as a temporary insulator.
if it spins up like a good un with lots of torque reaction then the problem could
in the solenoid contacts but how serviceable they are is unknown.
if its still poor, the problem lies within the motor and apart from brushes and commutator, there's not much you can do unless you spot a bad solder joint or ground terminal.


When all else fails, RTFM  - 2006 Expert 2.0 HDI/110

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#11 2025-02-08 15:30:36

RegW
Member
From: Bristol
Registered: 2024-04-21
Posts: 223

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

As for motor selection I cant help I'm afraid
I cant remember the last time I bought a starter motor for any car or van
and when I did I just mentioned a vehicle and bought a motor, simple as that.
Teeth count and pitch wasn't an issue.
Not sure what engine you have but if it was say a DW8, I'd probably just search for a DW8 starter motor
and hope for the best but keep the receipt !


When all else fails, RTFM  - 2006 Expert 2.0 HDI/110

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#12 2025-02-08 15:40:30

RegW
Member
From: Bristol
Registered: 2024-04-21
Posts: 223

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Out of interest I did quick Ebay search and this motor seems to fit many similar vehicles
and it fits the 1.9D 1.9TD and 2.0 HDI
(inc 98 dispatch)
I see no mention of teeth and pitch
( aint nobody got time for that )

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/115520170512?

Last edited by RegW (2025-02-08 15:42:18)


When all else fails, RTFM  - 2006 Expert 2.0 HDI/110

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#13 2025-02-08 15:55:42

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 961

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

As Reg said, you should feel a nice satisfying kick with some torque.

That grease does look strangely... granular!     

If you go for an ebay one just message in advance asking for confirmation that it will fit and that they would accept return if not. 
With that confifmed you can be sure you only risk wasting time not money.

Last edited by OAT (2025-02-08 16:01:28)

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#14 2025-02-08 16:07:43

p359
Member
Registered: 2025-02-01
Posts: 9

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Right, I think I've found the prob.  That grainy stuff isn't teflon, it's I think what's left of teeth.  (or it's what used to be smooth plastic now ground into paste)

Either way, something chewed up that outer white plastic that sits outside the 3 small gears.  I think that's why it engages but then must slip like crazy.  I'll go with that for now - new starter it is. 

Appreciate all the comments and tips to all, you're a top bunch!  I'll drop an update next week for fun and if anyone else searches this up.. fingers crossed it's a runner smile

Cheers and enjoy your weekends

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#15 2025-02-08 16:11:12

p359
Member
Registered: 2025-02-01
Posts: 9

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

mini_IMG-20250208-WA0003.jpg

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#16 2025-02-08 16:31:39

RegW
Member
From: Bristol
Registered: 2024-04-21
Posts: 223

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Aha!  Chinese 'Nylon' made from recycled carrier bags and flip flops


When all else fails, RTFM  - 2006 Expert 2.0 HDI/110

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#17 2025-02-08 17:01:25

Eddie Honda
Member
Registered: 2023-08-27
Posts: 27

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

You could get that part alone and fix it.

Had to do the same with a couple of BMW motorcycle starters as the plastic doesn't like the kick back of a large twin pot engine.

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#18 2025-02-09 02:21:46

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 961

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Just a word of caution.

Might the apparent confusion over teeth explain why that one ate itself?

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#19 2025-02-11 21:42:28

p359
Member
Registered: 2025-02-01
Posts: 9

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

OAT wrote:

Just a word of caution.

Might the apparent confusion over teeth explain why that one ate itself?

Um, not following sorry.  Are you suggesting van might have some issue bigger, that I need to look into before the new starter?

Thanks for any clarification, new to this but very eager to learn, cheers

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#20 2025-02-12 00:27:44

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 961

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

In the post below it suggests that the tooth count on the drive pinnion varied across different starters.  I wondered if there could also be variations in those planetery gears too?  Yours looked severely mashed up.

Main thing is when you buy one to make sure they accept returns.

p359 wrote:

Then I've looked online for starters.  I've put the van reg into for example autodoc.co.uk and the ones come up listed:Number of Teeth: 11\\13and another below it as :Number of Teeth: 9,10 and again another as:Number of Teeth: 10-11, 12-13 So this is confusing!  Any way I can suss out what the van should have, given this one now is not stock.  It has 13 teeth but maybe wrong?I've measured the teeth on the engine side using blue cloth, teeth are 7mm centre to centre

https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/forum/img/members/1880/mini_IMG_20250208_111703115_HDR.jpeg

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#21 2025-02-12 02:15:24

RegW
Member
From: Bristol
Registered: 2024-04-21
Posts: 223

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

My theory is that it was just poor quality starter.
While the teeth and pitch matter of course, the one on  Ebay I pointed to fitted many many models
and suggests the makers were pretty pragmatic and took an 'if it aint broke' attitude like many car van bike manufacturers and selected a known off the shelf device which was easy and cheap to source compared to needlessly developing various versions for the same basic task.

Of course, it may have worn out early if the van it was in was bastard to start cos someone couldn't be arsed to fit new glow plugs or service it properly  for instance and just kept cranking the thing over until it coughed into life
I've known folk do that roll

Last edited by RegW (2025-02-12 02:16:57)


When all else fails, RTFM  - 2006 Expert 2.0 HDI/110

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#22 Yesterday 08:38:05

p359
Member
Registered: 2025-02-01
Posts: 9

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

Progress report, new starter arrived, bolted it in, appears to turn well, no grinding noises so that's super result. No firing from the engine which gets me to RegW point

RegW wrote:

.. of course, it may have worn out early if the van it was in was bastard to start cos someone couldn't be arsed to fit new glow plugs or service it properly  for instance and just kept cranking the thing over until it coughed into life
I've known folk do that roll

I think this is the case. Precious driver was my elderly dad and yup, he's said to me now it was a s**t to start. After I finished banging my head on table, I've realised this is more learning ahead haha. I'll start a new thread tho, starter is doing what it says. From what I've read quickly, fuel filter cap oring, new filter can't hurt, check fuel lifter perhaps if it has one? Glow plugs, are they getting voltage and so on. Suspect never changed ever. Grrr!

Appreciate all the help and advice to here, been awesome to find this place. smile

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#23 Yesterday 14:21:27

RegW
Member
From: Bristol
Registered: 2024-04-21
Posts: 223

Re: 1998 Dispatch starter questions

While you're working through getting it up and running again
I'll suggest you put the vehicle details, especially engine type in your signature
DW8/XUD/1.9D/1.9 TD etc to help narrow the focus on what type you're dealing with.


if you suspect glow plugs, voltage supply from the relay is easy to test for but you'll need to isolate each one and do
careful resistance tests in situ to determine if they're OK or not.
A pic or pics of the engine would help too

AFAIK the 1.9's are indirect injection lumps? so bad or non working glow plugs will make them
very hard to start from cold

Last edited by RegW (Yesterday 14:32:18)


When all else fails, RTFM  - 2006 Expert 2.0 HDI/110

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