Speeding

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-16 13:49:59

Just got a letter through the post Done for speeding sad 61mph in a 60mph BUT of course I should of been doing 50 in a Van. Now i know it's my fault i didn't know that was the law but i do feel hard done by. Driving since 1990, never had so much as a parking ticket until this. I never go above 60(61) bloody anywhere in this Van. Absolutely gutted.
I've seen in the small print that Vans derived from a Car chassis & have a maximum laden weight of 2 tonnes can drive the same as car speed limits.
Now I use mine as a Day Van so no weight in it. Can I argue that the Expert is built on the 806? I mean it is Identical bar windows yet a Ford Escort for example looks nothing like an Escort.
Be grateful for any info or if anyway one has had this happen to them.

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-16 13:59:09

Just seen this on Wiki so maybe.....

They share mechanicals and body structure with the Sevel Nord Eurovans minivans: the Citroën Evasion (Synergie), Fiat Ulysse, Lancia Zeta, and Peugeot 806.

Casper · 2020-06-16 15:18:47

PLG on reg doc. I dont think you can argue. OK you can but wont get anywhere.

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-16 15:30:13

You're right not a lot of point. Just dragging things out. When I think of all the White Van Man types that speed passed me at 80/90 odd all the time it p****s me off that I get done for doing 60. I was in a stream of traffic all doing 60 with a few cars overtaking. Just shows how important it is to get your Vans changed to Campers on v5 if possible. sad

Casper · 2020-06-16 21:41:51

You must have got a right job's worth shit looking at that camera as 61 would not make it flash. I go through the motorway ones at 75 and never flashed one yet. Im sure you are still allowed to do 70 on motorways apart from HGV.

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-16 21:49:59

it was one of those new Average Speed cameras. It calculated I was doing 61 over a stretch of Single carriageway. It's not a road I've used before(long way from home) I was just going with the flow of traffic doing what I thought was the Speed Limit. I guess I'm lucky I've not been done before as I have often just assumed it was okay to do 60. How many Vans drop to 50? I think you're okay with the old flashing Camera as they only go off when you go over the limit so they have no way of knowing what you're driving unless you ping them. Yes 70 on a Motorway & 60 on a dual carriageway roll

vaz2121 · 2020-06-17 01:17:05

Not sure how the average speed cameras are policed but yes comercial speed limits are a PITA ...............
I'm inclined to agree with Casper you got a Jobs worth checking the data variables

I was lead to believe only the Escort van with the little slit window behind door made it a car derived van and models without that fell foul of this regulation........
{Or it was Urban Myth} ............
White Van Man and his employer and the expectation of their abilities has got a lot to answer for when it comes to Comercial speed limits IMHO and the manner of enforcement .....
{It's a Long drawn out argument and Bone of Contention that's for another day}

The precursor to white van man and well known Joke of the time that The Fastest vehicle on the road was an Astra max Diesel Van..........

And With Coaches being allowed in the outside Lane of a Motorway and 70MPH......
That freight needed greater protection and was a more precious cargo than humans

Although Many moons ago when I was a boy {Early Mid Eighties I got class 1 HGV in 1979} and Newish to Lorry Driving They did Traffic surveys From a Green hut On-side of M/way ...........
It was in the very early days of Stagecoach and deregulation.....
I think they only had 3 Coaches at time Running from Perth to London....

To Cut a long {story} description short
IIRC.... They had to dismiss and deny one or their Buses was clocked on the road survey Speed Radar traveling at 105MPH....
The de-barkle caused quite a stir and myrth as like white van man they were Notorious for running on M/way at speed......

In vehicles like Transits or Car derved vans ....
Actually It's amazing how so many of those vehicles now-a-days are so Car like to Drive including performance to a degree it's easy to see how-why it's easy to fall foul of Laws and regulations that were laid out so long ago when most cars even the norm and technology was still Drum brakes all round and took forever to stop in a hurry............

tee_cee · 2020-06-17 07:12:15

Since the avg speed cameras use number plate recognition, it would mean that they can apply different limits by looking up the vehicle type automatically.
Did not know they were doing this.
I guess your only hope is that they must inform you within 14 days of the offence.

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-17 09:27:17

In the Bumf they included with the notice to prosecute they say and I quote... There is one group of Vans which have the same speed limits as Cars by virtue of the definitions in Schedule 6 of the RTRA 1984. These Vans that are both derived from a Car chassis & have a max laden weight of no more than 2 tonnes. This means that the weight of the vehicle & the payload it is designed to be able to carry when added together do not exceed 2 tonnes. The Van design must be a derivative of a Car body, it is not sufficient that it looks similar to a particular car.
Very few Vans meet the criteria to benefit from the same speed limits as a car. Those that do are likely to be similar to a Ford Fiesta van, Vauxhall Corsa or Renault Clio Van in having max payloads of around 500kgs so that when combined with the weight of the unladen vehicle (normally around 1.4 tonnes) the maximum laden weight of the whole vehicle will not exceed 2 tonnes.

Above info courtesy of Norfolk Constabulary! You're right what you say about modern vans Vaz. I hired a new transit and it was no different to driving quite a decent Car and a lot nicer/quicker than a small cc hatchback.
The letter was on my doorstep within 6 days tee_cee so no hope there.
I'm not presuming you all do 60 on a single carriageway (those that have Van versions) but take note of this because it seems these new 'intelligent' Cameras know everything and although when it comes down to it i was breaking the law I do feel hard done by.

vaz2121 · 2020-06-17 17:54:50

You have a point ....... If you broke the law your guilty...........
But I also understand the hard done by part..........

Two wrong don't make a right ..........
And funny as Little Britain can be "Computor says No" syndrome can snowball out of control and your guilty until you prove your innocent...........

I've fallen into this cycle myself and it's a sign of our dependency on alleged infallibility of computers that were updated / programmed by humans............

kenbw2 · 2020-06-18 04:32:01

This sucks balls doesn't it. So easy to do 60 on singles but unfortunately the law is the law and it's time to suck up the points sad

As the owner of a few points and being dependent on the van as my home I follow speed limits like a nun - 50 on singles, 60 on duals. I had my old Dispatch registered as a motorhome but they won't give me that on my TD. Shame.

It happens, don't feel bad about yourself. Even if the points and fine and insurance hurt neutral

Last edited by kenbw2 (2020-06-18 04:32:49)

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-18 07:59:32

Thank you both. You have actually made me feel a bit better about it all smile I am absolutely dreading doing a Speed Awareness Course although I know it means not getting the 3 points if I do. I was expelled from School and the thought of being in a class and talked to like a Child on the dangers of Speeding for 5 hours makes me feel quite Sick. I have a few mental health Issues that make anything like this very hard to to say the least. So I might have to just take the points If given the Option. Ken, can I ask what kind of % your insurance rose after receiving the points?

scotchjoe · 2020-06-18 08:27:59

I done a speed awareness course a few years ago,everyone on the course had been caught by the police speed gun at the same location coming into a 30mph from a 40mph.If caught doing less than 40mph the course was given as an option to the 3 points.
The course then split us up into wee groups like at school and began to show us the danger of speed.
Pictures of motorway pile ups and car crashes at 100mph killing occupants and pedestrians ect were shown and inane questions asked through-ought.
Nothing relative to anyone taking the course who were all doing under 40mph when caught was discussed.
I will be taking the 3 points the next time.The speed awareness course is a complete waste of your time.A days wage lost by taking a day off to attend also stings a fair bit.
The police speed camera was 200 meters away from the 30mph signpost by the way.Not that I would accuse officers of the law of being sneaky ba****ds.

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-18 08:50:54

You've confirmed my fears Scotchjoe lol. My only worry is they hold it against you as having the wrong attitude if you don't take the course and really don't fancy the thought of my Insurance doubling.

scotchjoe · 2020-06-18 09:02:10

I do believe the insurance company's ask if you have taken a recent speed awareness course.So if you declare then they will raise the cost the same as if you have 3 points anyway.

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-18 09:32:38

Ah okay, great lol cry

Last edited by lincolnexpert (2020-06-18 09:33:25)

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-18 11:32:25

I've printed this off to put in my view to stop me having a lapse in concentration/ control roll

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-22 12:07:58

Just checking my tyre pressures this morning and looking at the general condition of them I noticed one was nearing the limit so went to have a look on ebay for any good second hand rims/tyres. I couldn't find any in my size. Loads but not my size...strange. Had a look in the handbook and found that previous owner has put a different size on for some reason. I have 185/14C. Bit more research and found these are older Commercial tyres used on rwd Transits & Ldvs etc. Got me wondering how this would affect the speedometer and found this site https://www.tyresizecalculator.com/tyre … calculator
typed in the size mine should be & the size fitted and there is an increase of 3mph on the speed I was doing when I got done. So okay I would of still been over the limit at 58mph and probably got fined the same but not great finding this out. I had no idea. The rims are standard Peugeot and the tyres looked fine when I bought it. Didn't think to check sizes. Anyway that link is worth checking if any of you have put alloys or a bigger steel etc on your Vans. Looks like I have to change my tyres & 3 of them are as good as new sad

Last edited by lincolnexpert (2020-06-22 12:09:04)

kenbw2 · 2020-06-23 01:27:45

My old white van came with 14" steels, which I swapped with 15" alloys. Never noticed any appreciable difference in the speedo.

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-23 08:58:23

I don't think it always make much difference Ken but the ones on mine are an 80 profile as opposed to 70 standard which means at an indicated 70 you'd be doing 73. Looking at the table the difference changing from 14 to 15 inch steels would be an increase of 2mph at 70. I guess it's only a problem if you do around 73 as indicated on speedo thinking you're fine but you're actually doing 75 which nowadays you will get done for on an average speed camera.

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-28 13:56:20

Got my Punishment letter yesterday! 3 points and £100 fine Or Speed awareness Course and approx £90.
Thankfully I can do the 'Course' online because of Corona. So that's a small blessing. One of those Zoom meeting things for just under 3 hours with a 15 minute break. Can't wait roll

kenbw2 · 2020-06-28 14:02:04

Ah it's not so bad. Pretty cool you can do them remotely, and better than the point and insurance.

I seem to remember the course being a smidge more than the fine, must have changed.

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-28 14:31:42

Hi Ken, yes definitely better being sat at home with a Coffee rather than in a class room with a load of other offenders. And I will be able to make hand gestures out of sight of my webcam. Tell you what though my eyes are fixed on my speedo these days. Where I live is mostly Single carriageways and it doesn't half p**s everyone off when you stick to 50. I've had 2 Cars over take me dangerously onto oncoming traffic who might well not have done If I'd been doing 60mph. I really think It's a daft law for anything Below 7.5t size, Oh well.

AB_70 · 2020-06-28 16:55:05

lincolnexpert wrote:

I've printed this off to put in my view to stop me having a lapse in concentration/ control
https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/forum/img/members/1049/mini_s-l1600.jpg

Top idea lincolnexpert I’ll do the same! I’ve only been in the UK for a few years (From Australia. I lived there since 1987) I had no idea about this!! It’s mad!! sad

Great thread though, very possibly saved me a future fine!!!

lincolnexpert · 2020-06-28 17:16:20

Hi AB, daft isn't it. The Government must make a fortune out of Van drivers. So many people drive Vans as a personal choice and not for trades these days. Should be classed differently if it's just for personal use I reckon.
Glad It's been of some use smile here's link if you want a sticker instead of printing it out https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VAN-SPEED-LI … SwXitb69AG

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#1 2020-06-16 13:49:59

Speeding

#2 2020-06-16 13:59:09

Re: Speeding

#3 2020-06-16 15:18:47

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#4 2020-06-16 15:30:13

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#5 2020-06-16 21:41:51

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#7 2020-06-17 01:17:05

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#8 2020-06-17 07:12:15

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