Dispatch being a pain

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-02 22:39:13

Hi I'm new here.
You have all probably heard this a million times before but here goes. So I bought a 55 plate dispatch 1.9d as a first van to head me on my way trying to start my business off. Problem is ita started to be a pain.
130000 miles

Symptoms are it will start up no problem at all every morning from cold but after about 15 seconds of running fine it starts to missfire and puff out blue/white smoke until warm then it clears and runs fine although it does feel to me like something is holding it back slightly. I know these vans are slow but in down to 25mph on hills with very little in the back of it. After a gear change it kangaroos slightly until it picks up the revs aswell.
Things I've done so far
New filters all round and new oil
Blabked egr valve
Tightened throttle cable
New backbox as old one was rotting
Changed all 4 glow plugs. Every one I took out was thick with black oily sludge?
New rocker cover gasket
And ran injector cleaner in the tank for about 400 miles and its still the same.
Also every now and then when I go out to start it from cold temp gauge is up in the red and the stop light is on but this will clear when I start to drive it?
Any help appreciated as I'm at my wits end and have limited money available at the minute until business gets going.
Thanks chris

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-04 09:27:38

Anyone?

Dellboy · 2021-04-04 09:51:56

have you tried a code read ?

i had a berlingo with similar issues and i was the sprocket on the timing belt , the woodruff key area was splitting allowing incorrect cam timing ...

where are you based ?

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-04 14:57:21

Dellboy wrote:

have you tried a code read ?
i had a berlingo with similar issues and i was the sprocket on the timing belt , the woodruff key area was splitting allowing incorrect cam timing ...
where are you based ?

Based in Durham area. I've just had the timing belt cover off and noticed the belt has about 10mm play if I push on it. Could it have jumped a tooth? Wouldn't it be missing all the time if it had? Going to get a code reader this afternoon and see whats om there.

Casper · 2021-04-04 15:01:56

Chrissud20 wrote:

Dellboy wrote:
have you tried a code read ?
i had a berlingo with similar issues and i was the sprocket on the timing belt , the woodruff key area was splitting allowing incorrect cam timing ...
where are you based ?
Based in Durham area. I've just had the timing belt cover off and noticed the belt has about 10mm play if I push on it. Could it have jumped a tooth? Wouldn't it be missing all the time if it had? Going to get a code reader this afternoon and see whats om there.

I would say aye. I have a chain on my Convoy rather belt and if that jumps the fuel timing is out also causing it to run like a bag o shite. MPG would be down also. I average 34/5 MPG with the same engine as you

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-04 16:08:16

Casper wrote:

Chrissud20 wrote:
Dellboy wrote:
have you tried a code read ?
i had a berlingo with similar issues and i was the sprocket on the timing belt , the woodruff key area was splitting allowing incorrect cam timing ...
where are you based ?
Based in Durham area. I've just had the timing belt cover off and noticed the belt has about 10mm play if I push on it. Could it have jumped a tooth? Wouldn't it be missing all the time if it had? Going to get a code reader this afternoon and see whats om there.

I would say aye. I have a chain on my Convoy rather belt and if that jumps the fuel timing is out also causing it to run like a bag o shite. MPG would be down also. I average 34/5 MPG with the same engine as you

20 litres is getting me about 120 miles
I've just had a code reader on it and no fault codes to show. Is it normal for all 4 glow plugs to be gunked up with oil?

Casper · 2021-04-04 21:13:49

No.

When i changed mine last year i had one with slight oil on it. You have either buggered rings or valve seals. Is that 100% oil or diesel with the general engine soot/gunk mixed in? Oil would explain your smoke and crap starting. It may also be oil water mix indicating a head gasket. But all four? Hmmm. Any oil in coolant?

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-04 22:13:14

Casper wrote:

No.
When i changed mine last year i had one with slight oil on it. You have either buggered rings or valve seals. Is that 100% oil or diesel with the general engine soot/gunk mixed in? Oil would explain your smoke and crap starting. It may also be oil water mix indicating a head gasket. But all four? Hmmm. Any oil in coolant?

I would say its more oil that diesel its thick on you finger to touch. Coolant is clear no oil at all in there.
And yep all four where exactly the same when I took them out.
Would this be the oil burning off on a cold start then causing the smoke and when it's gone its running OK but down on power because the head has gone? Going to have to get it booked in as its needed right now. I'm guessing the head isn't going to be a cheap fix either.. absolutely no luck with cars/vans.
Once warmed up it doesn't smoke at all and is fine on a flat just gutless on any uphill gradient. Can be sat at 60 and hit a small hill and its down to 2nd gear in no time and 25mph.

Casper · 2021-04-04 23:45:15

At what you are saying i would be more prone to think (Im no mechanic) its the valve seals. When parked overnight the oil will seep down into the top of the pistons. When starting up you will burn it off and be fine for the day. Did you take them plugs out a cold engine? If so that may explain my theory more. Did you pay much for the van? You may end up with a money pit but as you need it for work you will keep throwing good money at bad. Get a compression test and see what the pros say. You could end up paying for that van two or three times over. I paid 800 for mine and apart from the odd starting issue its been great.

JohnDragonMan · 2021-04-05 01:15:37

does it use oil a lot at all?

it could also be the crank case breather at the top of the engine getting blocked up.. maybe.
pull the air intake pipe off and see if its got oil in it. you expect it on a turboed engine but on an engine without a turbo there should be very little to no oil in it.

i would have suggested the EGR opening more than it should but you've already blocked that.

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-05 07:20:50

Casper wrote:

At what you are saying i would be more prone to think (Im no mechanic) its the valve seals. When parked overnight the oil will seep down into the top of the pistons. When starting up you will burn it off and be fine for the day. Did you take them plugs out a cold engine? If so that may explain my theory more. Did you pay much for the van? You may end up with a money pit but as you need it for work you will keep throwing good money at bad. Get a compression test and see what the pros say. You could end up paying for that van two or three times over. I paid 800 for mine and apart from the odd starting issue its been great.

Took van for a good drive out so engine was hot when plugs came out as I done oil and filters at the same time. All 4 plugs came straight out not a problem with any of them. Van cost 700 and was only meant to be a stop gap van to get me started and its sods law it will cost me a fortune?

Johndragonman
air intake was took out and egr was unscrewed and cleaned out aswell. Egr had about 5mm of gunk on the inside walls of it so that was all cleaned of and intake sprayed with carb cleaner and washed out and left to dry. As for oil usage I've had the van just over a month and I havnt noticed any oil usage at all before I changed oil it was sat in the right place on district and after service its sat at the full mark and hasn't moved.

Dellboy · 2021-04-05 09:34:53

Chrissud20 wrote:

Casper wrote:
At what you are saying i would be more prone to think (Im no mechanic) its the valve seals. When parked overnight the oil will seep down into the top of the pistons. When starting up you will burn it off and be fine for the day. Did you take them plugs out a cold engine? If so that may explain my theory more. Did you pay much for the van? You may end up with a money pit but as you need it for work you will keep throwing good money at bad. Get a compression test and see what the pros say. You could end up paying for that van two or three times over. I paid 800 for mine and apart from the odd starting issue its been great.
Took van for a good drive out so engine was hot when plugs came out as I done oil and filters at the same time. All 4 plugs came straight out not a problem with any of them. Van cost 700 and was only meant to be a stop gap van to get me started and its sods law it will cost me a fortune?
Johndragonman
air intake was took out and egr was unscrewed and cleaned out aswell. Egr had about 5mm of gunk on the inside walls of it so that was all cleaned of and intake sprayed with carb cleaner and washed out and left to dry. As for oil usage I've had the van just over a month and I havnt noticed any oil usage at all before I changed oil it was sat in the right place on district and after service its sat at the full mark and hasn't moved.

check the plugs the easiest way is to conect to a battery i hd 4 out on mine , if the timing is out then there would be a diesel at the wrong time helping to foul the plugs

JohnDragonMan · 2021-04-05 12:01:37

hmm strange one. have you changed the temperature sensor yet?
they can fail and when they do they usually tell the ECU the temperature has gone absolute zero or thermonuclear... which can cause running issues heh

vaz2121 · 2021-04-05 12:53:25

Sorry if I'm stepping on any toes but I'd (not a mechanic either) Keep it simple stupid KISS and go back to basics ..........
It's getting fuel & air obviously (required amount?)............

That leaves us timing ....
Check that's spot on...........
Once you know as best you can all parameters are within spec then move on to next thing........

I'm sure I read that there was some small "Freeplay" we'll call it on the cam sprocket .........
There should be no "Freeplay" in anything anywhere (All sprocket should be mounted tight and torqued down) unless usually about a half inch or ability to turn belt 90 degrees on the longest run section.........
Unless manufacturer says otherwise ....

Although I've had glow plugs stuck and break in head..........
I managed to change all 4 glow plugs again recently ........
They all came out bone dry ..........

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-05 13:13:36

JohnDragonMan wrote:

hmm strange one. have you changed the temperature sensor yet?
they can fail and when they do they usually tell the ECU the temperature has gone absolute zero or thermonuclear... which can cause running issues heh

Hmm strange you say this. When I plugged it into the reader and had a scroll through the temp was reading -40 on the code reader. Any pics of the temp sensor?

JohnDragonMan · 2021-04-05 17:41:37

hmm that sounds about right for a failed one.. i sadly do not know where it is on the DW8, however i would look above the bell housing. its a pretty common place.

just note that you'll get coolant leaking out when you change it, if you do it quick though its fine.. hell if you dont know the coolants history class it as a flush and replace with new. just uses standard OAT coolant.

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-05 18:13:32

JohnDragonMan wrote:

hmm that sounds about right for a failed one.. i sadly do not know where it is on the DW8, however i would look above the bell housing. its a pretty common place.
just note that you'll get coolant leaking out when you change it, if you do it quick though its fine.. hell if you dont know the coolants history class it as a flush and replace with new. just uses standard OAT coolant.

Ive found it and took it out and had a look at it quickly. Gave it a clean up and put back in as no where open to get one right now. Stop light came on dash upon starting. Temp gauge on zero but red light on to say its at 110. Started van stop light still on so moved forward and its gone out. Temp gauge stopped working. So plugged on scanner. Still -40 on startup when warmed up for ten minutes its sitting at 41. A mate of mine owns a scrap yard and has a dw8 on the shelf for £150 and wants £150 to swap it straight into the van. Says it came out of a dispatch and has 100k miles on it. I'm tempted to just do the swap as I can see this being a money bit changing parts all over the place to get back to normal.

JohnDragonMan · 2021-04-05 23:36:23

temp sensors usually fail internally, however if its working on the dash then it cant be that thats faulty hmm
have you tried unplugging the mass air flow sensor? again a pretty useless thing on a vehicle without a turbo but i guess it helps calculate EGR.
best thing with these engine is you can just pretty much just keep unplugging things till it works... not sure on the DW8 but on my DW10 (HDI) it only needs the fuel pressure sensor, crank and cam shaft sensors to run and hell once its running it does not even need the cam sensor!

pretty sure on the DW8 you can even unplug the damn injectors and it still runs.. all be it rough haha

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-06 12:56:00

JohnDragonMan wrote:

temp sensors usually fail internally, however if its working on the dash then it cant be that thats faulty
have you tried unplugging the mass air flow sensor? again a pretty useless thing on a vehicle without a turbo but i guess it helps calculate EGR.
best thing with these engine is you can just pretty much just keep unplugging things till it works... not sure on the DW8 but on my DW10 (HDI) it only needs the fuel pressure sensor, crank and cam shaft sensors to run and hell once its running it does not even need the cam sensor!
pretty sure on the DW8 you can even unplug the damn injectors and it still runs.. all be it rough haha

Yeh tried the mass maf and no different. Been and got a coolant sensor to change and change the coolant while I'm on. I belive sensor is faulty as the gauge is all over the place sometimes doesnt move sometimes up in the red from a cold start. Will get it done and see what the outcome is.

Chrissud20 · 2021-04-06 19:51:19

Outcome to new coolant temp sensor and coolant is, wait for it............................... done absolutely nothing? temp gauge still says its over heating kn a cold start and after a minute it goes to zero and stays there. I've bit the bullet and had enough love the little slug of a van but its starting to do my head in. Changing engine next week.

JohnDragonMan · 2021-04-06 21:17:33

hmm i wish i had more knowledge on the DW8. i just dont know why they didnt stick with the good old XUD engine. the DW8 is pretty much an XUD controlled electronically. completely unnecessary if you ask me. add a computer and electronics, add problems! you would not mind if you were getting more horsepower out of the thing but its about the same as an XUD.
im pretty sure that the EGR only kicks in when the engine is idling anyway too.
cant understand why they changed an already great thing. hmm

Casper · 2021-04-06 21:34:18

I thought it was DW8 Not to electronic and DW8B more electronic and 1BHP difference. Im sure my old Expert was the DW8 but cant remember if it had the EGR or not. Probably did being a 2000 model.

kenbw2 · 2021-04-07 00:32:23

JohnDragonMan wrote:

hmm i wish i had more knowledge on the DW8. i just dont know why they didnt stick with the good old XUD engine. the DW8 is pretty much an XUD controlled electronically. completely unnecessary if you ask me. add a computer and electronics, add problems! you would not mind if you were getting more horsepower out of the thing but its about the same as an XUD.
im pretty sure that the EGR only kicks in when the engine is idling anyway too.
cant understand why they changed an already great thing.

The original DW8 actually wasn't even electronically controlled - my 1999 one had no ECU and the pump was advanced by a waxstat.

I think they kinda had to for emissions. XUD was only Euro 2 and as of 2000/2001 they had to be Euro 3. I assume they didn't want to offer the HDi to everyone and needed a budget engine for the lower end while they sorted out the 1.6 engine

You can definitely tell the difference - I couldn't smell my veg oil at all on the DW8. Definitely no problem smelling the exhaust on my XUD tongue

Last edited by kenbw2 (2021-04-07 00:33:08)

vaz2121 · 2021-04-07 23:48:41

kenbw2 wrote:

The original DW8 actually wasn't even electronically controlled - my 1999 one had no ECU and the pump was advanced by a waxstat.
I think they kinda had to for emissions. XUD was only Euro 2 and as of 2000/2001 they had to be Euro 3. I assume they didn't want to offer the HDi to everyone and needed a budget engine for the lower end while they sorted out the 1.6 engine
You can definitely tell the difference - I couldn't smell my veg oil at all on the DW8. Definitely no problem smelling the exhaust on my XUD

My 306 is a 2000 "W" reg car with the DW8 {I think it may be now looked apon as or in some circles called a DW8/A}in it and has a Bosch pump and No ECU control...............
The Van however has the DW8/B which has a Lucus/Delphi pump with a wax stat type trigger cable and most definitely has ECU control over certain items all be it LTD control Unlike the HDI variant and as kenbw2 says to achieve EURO 3 which the Van is I don't know what the 306 is although Wikipedia does lists the DW8 engines as a Euro 3 engine...............

{One friend had a 1999 expert with a Lucus/Delphi pump on his van and another friend with a first gen similar age Belingo had a bosch pump on his and both vans with DW8's and a 3rd guy also with a Berlingo but a later 53 plate facelift and it had a Lucus/Delphi fitted that I would have said was a DW8/B motor}

kenbw2......... I can quite clearly smell the difference with cooking oil in the 306 even with only a couple of litres still mixed in there is that because It was thining out with the extra diesel or the fact that she's over 200,000 miles and probably needs new nozzles in the injectors

kenbw2 · 2021-04-08 13:22:08

vaz2121 wrote:

kenbw2......... I can quite clearly smell the difference with cooking oil in the 306 even with only a couple of litres still mixed in there is that because It was thining out with the extra diesel or the fact that she's over 200,000 miles and probably needs new nozzles in the injectors

I think it was more because I was used to the XUD where you could smell it from about 20 miles away. With the DW8 I had to put my nose to the exhuast to get a proper whiff. Which I of course did not angel

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#1 2021-04-02 22:39:13

Dispatch being a pain

#2 2021-04-04 09:27:38

Re: Dispatch being a pain

#3 2021-04-04 09:51:56

Re: Dispatch being a pain

#4 2021-04-04 14:57:21

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#5 2021-04-04 15:01:56

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#6 2021-04-04 16:08:16

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#7 2021-04-04 21:13:49

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#8 2021-04-04 22:13:14

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#9 2021-04-04 23:45:15

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#10 2021-04-05 01:15:37

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#11 2021-04-05 07:20:50

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#12 2021-04-05 09:34:53

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#13 2021-04-05 12:01:37

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#14 2021-04-05 12:53:25

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#15 2021-04-05 13:13:36

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#16 2021-04-05 17:41:37

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#17 2021-04-05 18:13:32

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#18 2021-04-05 23:36:23

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#19 2021-04-06 12:56:00

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#20 2021-04-06 19:51:19

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#21 2021-04-06 21:17:33

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#22 2021-04-06 21:34:18

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#23 2021-04-07 00:32:23

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#24 2021-04-07 23:48:41

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#25 2021-04-08 13:22:08

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