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#1 2018-02-02 18:37:57

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

dispatch smoking..!

I am led to believe my van is smoking because the crank case vapours are not filtering and thus going back into the combustion chamber for burning!!

Any ideaS?

Thinking of putting in my own oil catcher to solve!!?

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#2 2018-02-14 15:41:58

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 368

Re: dispatch smoking..!

I'm not convinced that would cure .. but hey disconnect give it a whirl...

I'm not so sure how much blow by would be needed but it would need to be breathing very heavily, to the point a catch can would likely fill quickly (How quick is oil dropping on dipstick?).......... Disconnect breather and if road testing necessary to replicate ........  temporary stick breather in a can or so see if it continues...or what happens 

Colour of smoke from exhaust is often a good indicator and when.....Hot/cold engine.... White ish, grey, dark grey, blue, black and on acceleration... overrun..... tick over..... all the time....
There's many factors and even with the normal rule of thumb here more  info is needed .... but even though an on line a prognosis is not always a foregone conclusion.
Sorry...................

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#3 2018-02-15 23:21:31

unter
Member
Registered: 2016-03-06
Posts: 16

Re: dispatch smoking..!

and what makes you think crankcase fumes are getting reburnt?
more likely piston blowby, i.e your pistons are blowing oil everwhere, all over the place.


Cancerian Aspergian indigolian manly child

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#4 2018-02-23 12:28:56

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

I came to this from my mechanic.. After the intercooler was leaking and spitting oil out he seemed to think that the filter in the top of the engine that demists the crank case vapours was not effective.. It only seems to smoke on hard acceleration.
I dont have to top up the oil as it does not really use that much.. it lasts a year or 10k. it does go down a little maybe a mug full is used in this time? what he said seems to make sense.. but a new filter from citroen is over £500 with gasket. it has always smoked in the 18month i have had it. oil in inter cooler means oil at the turbo could mean its coming through the breather or a leak at the turbo?
I have just fitted a catch can between the engine top and air inlet after the air filter. just taped into the line. it was brittle after 10 years of heat and broke in half in my hand befor i even had chance to chop it. i have oil/carbons down the back of the engine between the fire wall/bulkhead..? i am guesing it is also breather issues leaking? the lines were oiled and carbonated. I have flushed the engine and done 2 oil changes to get back to clean oil so i will let u know what the outcome is!

please share your views.

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#5 2018-02-23 13:27:45

Tiree
Administrator
From: Castle Douglas
Registered: 2013-09-20
Posts: 166

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Hi woodrow - I'm not particularly mechanically minded - but my turbo started to go at around 145k. One of the earliest symptoms was a bit of dark smoke when you put the foot down which got steadily worse over a year or so. Recon replacement turbo was under £500 fitted.


2006 Citroen Dispatch 2.0HDi bought in July 2013 - Partial camper conversion ........

mini_citroen-dispatch2.jpeg

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#6 2018-02-23 22:59:43

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 368

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Woodrow:A little Oil in the turbo air pipes is a traight of Turbo diesels......
Simple fact is because of the high compression all diesels even healthy engines suffer some blow by more than petrol engines.... Hence why oil gets So black and dirty and usually much shorter oil change schedules than Petrol engines
Turbos can fail in several manners....... Failing seals allowing oil into either the exhaust side (Blue smoke) or into inlet side (oil in pipes etc.)
Black smoke is unburnt diesel
Usually with mileage......injectors: Needing new nozzles or cleaned can cause black smoke as fuels not atomised properly............
If the engine is heavily worn and you have excessive blow by you will get lots of oil in inlet pipes even if the filter is operating properly
With your catch can put some wire wool loosely in it to give the vapours something to condence onto and help the vapours to return to oil rather than just an empty void
....... with out actually seeing what it's doing
I'm not for one second contradicting your mechanic but your last post is suggesting to me that you engine maybe not that bad if the only real smoke is some black under hard acceleration
As for the brittle pipes they do need attending to and if a breather is blocked crank case pressure needs to escape somewhere (oil leaks etc)

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#7 2018-02-26 13:27:38

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Thank you for you advice! I totally agree with you!

I have put the catch can on. i did modify it as it came with no filter whatsoever! I put in stainless steel wool/pads usually used to scrub the pans in the kitchen sink. also a divide with a thick tin foil between the inlet and outlet port of the catch can! including a gauze on the outlet to prevent any loose wool escaping along the line into the air intake. ( I will be keeping a close eye on this as it will be the first thing to block up)!! thankfully its just a case of taking off the outlet hose on the can and replacing or cleaning the gauze which is in the outlet spout!

The original hose that comes off the top of the engine that was brittle with age i disposed of. I used some heavy duty hose and it slipped straight into the remaining pipe at either end. i.e Top of engine breather outlet and where it connects to the air intake tubing after the air filter. The old brittle pipe i took out i left a bit at each end so to speak. I did use the old silver heat shield and also some additional silver/aluminium tape to protect the new hose near the engine and secure the ends of the hoses at each end where i slotted them in!
This seems to be a working model! I did run the engine while i had the pipes disconnected and the breather was thick with oily smoke!! proving that the original filter is not doing its job!! now the recycled air going thru my engine is much cleaner. i can also see water condensing in the catch can which i dont want in my turbo/ inter cooler or intake/ engine!

My van has not had a hard life. its only done light work and 95k on 2007 I just think maybe its not had as many oil changes as i would have given it! At least every 10k or year a change should be done!! i did mine twice in the same day with an engine flush in the first with kerosene.. much cheaper than the shelf products but virtually the same! I did this just to get my oil clean and have a fresh start so i can monitor this idea and method i am using! I also put kerosene in the fuel as it will clean thru the oil and deposits left by the dirty breather! Just as a note whilst i was changing the oil filter i managed to knock off a vacuum pipe!! i lost turbo and it took my 2 days and sleepless nights to figure out what was wrong and to find the problem! no vacuum!! no turbo! only just got this lot done so I will post again with my findings. Also this week i have changed my front brake disks and pads. flushed out the old brake fluid and replace with new dot 4 fluid! and today i must refit my electric hydraulic power steering pump which i have had reconditioned due to sudden intermittent failure of the power steering!

Please do share your views. thanks. dan

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#8 2018-02-26 18:10:36

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 368

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Ive just picked up on the part where you say your van is a 2007 does this make it a MK2  with the 1.6 HDI?

Last edited by vaz2121 (2018-02-26 18:11:10)

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#9 2018-02-26 19:38:44

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Sorry no this is the mk2 facelift.. 2.0l hdi 120

Totally different to the 1.6 hdi

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#10 2018-02-27 07:52:34

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 368

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Having the 2.0L HDI is (In my opinion) the better of the two engines
I'll stick with what I said on my last post but also add.......

I have a strong suspicion that your van will have a DPF (FAP) and as your asking about some black smoke I'd say (best guess) it's not blocked (At least Not entirely)  but oil contamination from any of the activities that we spoke about is I'm sure you'll know is killer for the DPF and in-turn a Death sentence for the engine should it (DPF) get blocked and go unchecked.
(keep a check on the Eolys tank if a DPF is fitted)

And being a 120bhp I'm 75% convinced it'll have a Variable Vane turbo and I'll best guess again :
It's boosting as your not inquiring about lack of power, But the vanes can get sticky, gum up, get rusty and jam open or shut and become a PITA.............

I point these items out as they can suffer associated grief from the mentioned symptoms further upstream.............exacerbating the situation

Last edited by vaz2121 (2018-02-27 11:05:45)

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#11 2018-02-27 13:11:50

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Thank you for your continued interest and input. I do think this info is of great value and take it on board! you are right it does have a DPF and it has been of some concern to me. what do you mean by eolys tank?

I also have had concerns for the turbo as i know for a fact oily deposits have been lacing it and my whole engine for years!
I have been trying to use fuel additives and Kerosene of late to clean what i can including help with the dpf but any other suggestions i am open to? I have also started using non supermarket fuel as i have heard alot of bad reviews on this cheap dirty fuel at supermarkets!

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#12 2018-02-28 10:56:09

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 368

Re: dispatch smoking..!

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing as they say and I stand to be corrected....  I honestly don't know where on A van the Eolys tank is located, But on a 307 and 407 that we had (for a short period) the Eolys tank was located under a plastic shroud in front of the N/R wheel (rear passenger) ..... So I will Assume it's similarly placed
Eolys (I believe Toxic) fluid (Apparently there's two types used dependent on age of vehicle) is injected into the diesel and during combustion creates a reaction to(Increase exhaust temp?) reduce the soot in DPF to regenerate it..... Something akin to what AdBlue (Urea) does.... although that's a different system

On our 307 I was told every time we took the diesel tank filler cap off (magnet in cap?) the computer registered that we filled the diesel tank  even if you only stuck £10 or £20 in and thus empties the eolys tank quicker.....Hence some of the grief we endured with it (FAP) along with an injector failure and the variable vanes in turbo jamming partially open, in effect not boosting  ...........

I found out after a hefty remedy spend, that if you filled the inside of Turbo with oven cleaner and left it for a few hours or so there was an excellent chance it removed the shi* out when you flushed and freeing up the vanes..........
And also remove FAP for deeper cleaning,  Use power washer ....don't get nozzle to close to ceramics and use only water preferably warm/hot to reverse flush...
No detergents etc.............    but I guess that's up to you 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uWVW_Q4wyWU

Eloys is relatively expensive there's a FAP (PAT alternative to OEM) Fluid kit (A little cheaper) on eBa* A DIY alternative and There seams to be a few YouTube  How Too's on this subject also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyEpmE5MfWs

And you've got to reset the fluid bottle refill counter

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#13 2018-03-01 11:08:48

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

thanks for all of this. i was unaware. i am looking into this now.

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#14 2018-03-03 19:02:20

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

I have had a look into this and i believe i do not have a dpf nor fap tank.. I can not find a tank under the van I did think i had a dpf but i read a post in the peugeot forum on the same year and engine and it says no DPF..?

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#15 2018-03-04 01:48:25

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

mt last vin numbers are 64031060.  can anyone help with some info?

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#16 2018-03-05 01:27:12

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 368

Re: dispatch smoking..!

woodrow wrote:

mt last vin numbers are 64031060.  can anyone help with some info?

The last part of your VIN really only tells us what number build it is on the production line. (Don't publish your VIN)
If you check your VIN it will have  an engine identifier within it.....
If your engine code is some thing like RHX, RHZ.... It'll be an 8V engine and that would make it like a 95 or a 110 BHP.............
However you said it's a 120 BHP which should be a 16V engine and would be something like RHK and I'm sure MK2's would have a DPF
which will look something like mini_DPF.jpg within exhaust system

We may have a little confusion............. Does your van have 5 or 6 speed gearbox............. look like my van in avatar or Tiree's van as they are facelift vans

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#17 2018-03-05 17:27:28

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Hi again.  I have had a response from a admin member on the french car forum and they looked up my van and said it has no DPF fitted. it is the 6 speed van. sorry for confusion but my van shape is the next one. I thought that was the facelift? they just phased mine out for the VW lookalike... lol. mine was one of the first ones like this. made 2006 reg 2007. apparently a DW10UTED4 engine. my log book has on it version X'RHK'
also in my service book it has sections on the dpf  for c1-c8 but non for dispatch? I dont think dispatch did them until 2011?

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#18 2018-03-06 19:39:35

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 368

Re: dispatch smoking..!

You learn something new every day as they say.....
My 307 was an 03 2.0L HDI and fitted with DPF the 407 was an 05 1.6HDI and the same (Dash board had more lights than Xmas tree and none of them Good) couple Vectras 05 & 06 through our hands all 3 estates had DPF's but the 08 hatch didn't.......
So as I said stand to be corrected I was under belief that all MK two vans from when they were launched had DPF...... and also anything listed as euro 5 needed a DPF to be euro5 and a few to make euro 4........ DW8 is  euro 3
Anything Diesel registered 2009 onward will be guaranteed to have a DPF is that still correct then?
Clear as mud

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#19 2018-03-06 20:39:06

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Its so confusing i must agree! i was reading a dispatch review i think by Honest John and it stated there that DPF were not as standard on dispatch? there are so many versions of engines in the same van its unreal. all different specs and parts?? crazy.. I would not know what euro my van is?? i am still unsure about the dpf now..
Thanks for your contact.. its nice to have some interest in these things and reflection.. or i would go mad.

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#20 2018-03-06 23:35:02

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 368

Re: dispatch smoking..!

On having a very quick skim through the work shop manual that I linked on your other post................

https://www.dropbox.com/s/j16bhaxycmdgw … p.pdf?dl=0

All be it a Scudo branded one I did notice a little snippet Within that suggests that you do not have a DPF fitted to your van
Quote:
          "The new SCUDO is equipped right from its sales launch with the following engines:

1560 Multijet 90CV (66 KW) Engine – Max Torque 180Nm at 1750 rpm.

1997 Multijet 120 CV (88KW) Engine – Max Torque 300Nm at 2000 rpm.

1997 Multijet 140 CV (103KW) Engine – Max Torque 320Nm at 2000 rpm.

The following table gives the engine-clutch-gear

box combinations for the vehicle at issue:

Engine F.A.P. Clutch Gearbox

1.6 90CV No F.A.P. Luk BE4R (5 gears)

2.0 120CV No F.A.P. Luk ML6C (6 gears)

2.0 140CV Yes F.A.P. Luk ML6C (6 gears)"

I have no idea why cars would need to be fitted with DPF's(FAP) so many years earlier yet vans that I would imagine are trundling around town all day everyday(Unregulated pollution) are not fitted (till much later)...........
Still On the bright side and all that "One less thing to worry about (failing) on van"

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#21 2018-03-07 09:37:11

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

too true.. many thanks and a pleasure. Nice one, and thanks for all your efforts.

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#22 2018-03-09 18:54:13

woodrow
Member
Registered: 2018-01-28
Posts: 21

Re: dispatch smoking..!

Just an update on the catch can mod i made on the van!  I can certainly say that it has made a vast improvement to the amount of smoke i am getting upon acceleration! I am still getting some.. maybe this will clear up as i drive some more as everything will be coated in oil etc/.. lets see.

weeks later and its so much better.  the van seens to be more powerful too. the mod is a good one.

Last edited by woodrow (2018-03-30 19:58:24)

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