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#1 2019-04-30 03:27:30

GRIFFIN
Member
From: DURHAM
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 140

EGR VALVE FIX

I'M ADDING THIS 4 AND A HALF YEARS AFTER WRITING THE ORIGINAL POST.
FEEL FREE TO READ THIS WHOLE POST FROM BEGINNING TO END, THERE ARE SOME INTELIGENT QUESTIONS AND REMARKS.
UNFORTUNATELY THERE ARE ALSO SOME REPLIES AND QUEERIES THAT DEFY LOGIC OF ANY KIND AND BARE NO RELATION TO REALITY WHATEVER.
IF AT ANY TIME YOU START TO LOOSE THE WILL TO LIVE, JUST GO TO THE END AND READ MY LAST ENTRY, THIS WILL TELL YOU EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO DO TO FIX YOUR EGR VALVE PROBLEMS. IF ALL ELSE FAILS SEND ME A PRIVATE MESSAGE AND I WILL EXPLAIN WHAT TO DO.




I posted previously about my 1.9 non turbo (DW8/B Engine) 2006 Scudo having a bad misfire and lots of smoke. In my description of how I fixed the problem I may have given in to a certain amount of poetic licence.

Just to explain in simpler terms, if you think you have an EGR valve related problem on a pre 2007 van, it's very easy to check without the need for fault code readers or a visit to the dealership. Just pull off the two vacuum pipes from the EGR valve (one goes to the actual EGR valve and the other goes to the EGR throttle). If your engine problem disappears, then the problem is in the EGR valve system (mine was apparently the EGR throttle). You now have two choices, you can replace the EGR valve assembly, which will cost you around £250 or more (and if your problem is caused by faulty wiring, it will not fix the problem). Or you can do what I did, simply block the ends of the rubber vacuum pipes up with a couple of 6mm bolts to prevent the ingress of anything undesirable. You don't need to make any kind of blanking plate or suchlike at all, by removing the vacuum pipes you have rendered the EGR valve inoperative, the EGR valve will stay closed due to the lack of required vacuum and the EGR throttle will remain open for the same reason. On models up to 2006 your engine management light will not come on because the monitoring system is incapable of picking up the fact that the EGR valve isn't actually doing anything, because all you have done is disconnect the vacuum pipes. I suspect that if your problem is caused by faulty wiring, your warning light may well come on, which is now an MoT failure.

If I have failed to explain things clearly, just get in touch and I will try to clarify.

Cheers, Griff.

Last edited by GRIFFIN (2023-08-31 02:05:34)


If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same

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#2 2019-04-30 11:16:48

k_wyndham_t
Member
Registered: 2018-06-01
Posts: 103

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

I would point out that interfering with the EGR system is also now an MOT failure so might be good to reconnect at MOT time or maybe internally block the hoses and reconnect so "fix" is invisible.
And for anyone upset about the environment don't be as EGR valves never did the job intended successfully anyway, they just damage your engine and cause more serious emissions issues further down the line like badly clogged inlets which can cause over-fueling and power loss.

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#3 2019-04-30 17:17:33

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,128

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Got a picture for Fik people like me? I have a stutter when taking up drive gently. As the EGR only really works at low revs i was blaming that. Cant be dong with stripping it out and cleaning it. Blanked the one on my Convoy a while back and im convinced my MPG has went up.

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#4 2019-05-02 00:29:31

GRIFFIN
Member
From: DURHAM
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 140

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

I agree totally about the MoT failure aspect of EGR valve tinkering but that is only when the engine management light comes on to give the game away. By simply disconnecting the vacuum pipes, the dreaded light does not come on, at least not on my 2006 scudo. owners of other models may want to experiment to see what happens with there particular van. All I can say is that mine runs so much smoother with the EGR valve disabled that I'd be reluctant to go back to having it connected now. I also agree that perhaps I should find a more discreet way of blanking off the pipes so I can fit them to the inlets and at least that way it wont draw attention to the fact. Although I'm not sure the Mot examiner will look under the bonnet if the engine management light is not on?

Cheers, Griff.


If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same

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#5 2019-05-02 17:27:06

k_wyndham_t
Member
Registered: 2018-06-01
Posts: 103

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

GRIFFIN wrote:

I agree totally about the MoT failure aspect of EGR valve tinkering but that is only when the engine management light comes on to give the game away. By simply disconnecting the vacuum pipes, the dreaded light does not come on, at least not on my 2006 scudo. owners of other models may want to experiment to see what happens with there particular van. All I can say is that mine runs so much smoother with the EGR valve disabled that I'd be reluctant to go back to having it connected now. I also agree that perhaps I should find a more discreet way of blanking off the pipes so I can fit them to the inlets and at least that way it wont draw attention to the fact. Although I'm not sure the Mot examiner will look under the bonnet if the engine management light is not on?

Cheers, Griff.

Hi Griff

Depends how incompetent your MOT tester is but there are whole sections now on examining all the emission control systems to make sure they have not been tampered with in any way including checking EGR valves are not disconnected and DPFs have not been cut open and welded back up with the innards removed. However they still only have 45 mins in which to do all this crap so they will always miss stuff.

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#6 2019-05-07 23:01:54

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,128

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Griffin what pipes am i blocking?

20190506-154539.jpg

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#7 2019-05-07 23:51:06

GRIFFIN
Member
From: DURHAM
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 140

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Hi Casper,

One of the pipes is in your photo but the other one is hidden from sight. I'm half day at work tomorrow, so will get out the camera and do a step by step photo shoot for you.

BTW, one of my friends told me his dad was having similar problems to me, so I told him to pull off and block off his EGR and EGR throttle vacuum pipes a few weeks ago, he called in to see me today and I thought he was gonna kiss me he was so happy, he did what I said and he couldn't believe that such a simple fix had solved such a long standing problem. For months he had experienced lack of power and excessive smoke and he said the van was as good as new now. Trust me it is that good.

I just did a 650 mile round trip from Durham to Surrey and back in mine over the weekend at a constant 65-70 MPH and it never missed a beat. Before I pulled the pipes off I wouldn't trust it to go 20 miles and the fuel consumption was terrible too.

Cheers, Griff.

Last edited by GRIFFIN (2019-05-08 02:06:44)


If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same

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#8 2019-05-08 00:41:09

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,128

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

I do notice mine is crap. Its way less that the 35 i got out my old 2000 expert

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#9 2019-05-08 15:18:17

loutennant
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 29

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

I too have the same engine, so I am eagerly waiting. Its in for a glow plug change tomorrow been quoted £100 (does that sound about right) after they have been done I shall be removing the egr pipes.  wink

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#10 2019-05-08 16:59:38

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,128

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Cant you access the glow plugs just taking that manifold looking blob of plastic over the engine? Dont think i would have paid 100 quid for someone else to do it.

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#11 2019-05-08 17:15:53

loutennant
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 29

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Haha casper I thought that myself, not really got the time at the minute though and I need the van for getting to n from work. Fortunately its booked in at a reputable garage so I shall leave it in their capable hands. big_smile

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#12 2019-05-08 19:09:35

kenbw2
Administrator
From: Preston
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 1,292

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Casper wrote:

Cant you access the glow plugs just taking that manifold looking blob of plastic over the engine? Dont think i would have paid 100 quid for someone else to do it.

I did mine myself. You unbolt the plastic intake manifold right at the back, unclip the EGR, and the various wires, at which point you get easy access to the plugs.

I'd say £100 isn't terrible, if it includes the supply of the plugs (£10 each?)


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#13 2019-05-08 19:31:01

loutennant
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 29

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

I'd say £100 isn't terrible, if it includes the supply of the plugs (£10 each?)

It does, local indi citroen garage, I will probably get the oil done as well because..... well why not.

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#14 2019-05-10 01:20:18

GRIFFIN
Member
From: DURHAM
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 140

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Hi chaps, sorry about delay rain stopped play yesterday and I've been busy at work today. In the meantime I'll talk you through it from Casper's photo.

Step one is simple, remove the large bore pipe that links the air filter housing in the right of the engine bay to the EGR valve assembly in the centre of Casper's photo, just undo the large jubilee clips at each end. there is a large expansion chamber attached centrally that hangs down below, you will need to wiggle this to get it out. There is a plastic bracket on the expansion chamber that looks as though it may have been fastened to the engine at some time, if it doesn't lift out easily, it may be worth getting underneath to see if yours needs loosening off. Once you have this assembly out of the way you will be able to see and have better access to the EGR valve assembly.

Step two. In the centre top of Casper's photo you will see, just to the left of the coolant expansion tank, a thing called the EGR throttle solenoid valve. There are two vacuum pipes going down from this valve, one goes off to the right hand side of the engine bay, the other one goes down to the EGR throttle valve assembly. On mine I simply pulled the bottom of the pipe off the EGR throttle valve assembly and pushed/screwed an m6 button head Allen screw in the end to prevent anything being sucked in. With hindsight It would be a little wiser to leave the pipe connected at the bottom and remove it from the top where it connects to the solenoid valve and screw in an m6 Allen head grub screw about an inch/25mm, then replace the pipe. This will have the same effect as blocking off the bottom of the pipe but the nice man doing your Ministry of Transport Test later this year will be much less likely to discover your naughty transgressions.

This part of the process is quite important, although it doesn't disable the EGR valve itself, it does disable the EGR throttle, which as the name suggests, does actually throttle the engine, reducing the amount of air and increasing the amount of exhaust gas going into the engine. This in turn decreases fuel economy and power but increases the smoke output. (Who would even invent such a stupid device?)

Step three. This concerns the actual EGR valve. From the right side of the EGR assembly, you will see a vacuum pipe passing underneath and connecting to the bottom left of the EGR valve. Again I simply pulled this pipe off and plugged it with an m6 button head but the wiser among us may be tempted to search for the other end of this pipe and plug it with another m6 grub screw instead, once again this will prevent our sins from being discovered and remove the need of absolution.

Step four simply involves replacing the air inlet pipe between the air box and the EGR assembly, by replacing the two jubilee clips, washing ones hands and rewarding ones self with a glass of single malt safe in the knowledge that your van will now give you more MPG and power and less smoke and certainly on my particular vehicle, NO ENGINE MANAGEMENT LIGHT devil

Remember, mine is a non turbo 2006 1.9 and I can't say whether other models will respond the same. I suspect that newer engine management systems may well have diagnostic systems that will discover the disconnection of the vacuum pipes and inform us through the lighting up of the dreaded orange light on the dash. If this happens it is an easy process to reverse, so you have lost nothing but it is worth a try, or you could just return things back to normal for your MoT?

Cheers, Griff.


If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same

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#15 2019-05-10 08:01:15

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,128

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Thank you GRIFFIN. So this is the two. First the one we can see.....

EGR.jpg

Then the one we cant

s-l1600.jpg

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#16 2019-05-10 13:54:12

GRIFFIN
Member
From: DURHAM
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 140

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Yes, Those are the ones. Just to clarify, it's the rubber pipes that need to be blocked to cut off the vacuum, you don't need do anything to the small hard pipes that come out of the EGR valve assembly.

It is much easier to see and get access too if you remove the big inlet pipe that comes from the air filter box.

Cheers Griff


If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same

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#17 2019-05-10 18:11:46

loutennant
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 29

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Superb stuff Griff, after an oil and glow plug change today the difference is more than expected ! big_smile

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#18 2019-05-10 20:18:41

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,128

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

loutennant wrote:

Superb stuff Griff, after an oil and glow plug change today the difference is more than expected ! big_smile


Yeas cheers GRIFFIN

Did you block your valve also Loutennant? Ill do mine this Sunday when doing the exhaust. Quick fag packet maths i am only getting 23mpg yikes I do have a fully blown box and i hope a rocker cover leak and not an injector. Ill check that out Sunday also. I have a feeling my valve may be stuck open. Something tells me the 100k on the clocks is not true. It had a few years with no mileage recorded at MOT's and last year it starts again. That is telling me the clocks have been changed. Was looking at the MOT checker on my old van and the lass i sold it to has put it back on the road so my old Pug still lived. That is close to 180k now.

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#19 2019-05-10 22:22:35

GRIFFIN
Member
From: DURHAM
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 140

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

It looks like mine is getting round 37.8mpg, in fairness that does include a 650 mile round trip on this tank of fuel but I've not gone out of my way to be economical in my driving habits. As with all my vehicles, both 2 wheeled and four wheeled, when I got my scudo I replaced fuel, oil and air filters and I use a friction reducer such as slick 50 with my semi synthetic 10/40 engine oil.

I reckon a friction reducer can extend engine life considerably. It once saved my engine when a heater hose blew on the back of my Austin maxi engine while towing a caravan and the faulty temp sender unit hid the excessively high temperature, allowing me to drive on for another ten mile or so without any water. After getting the AA out to fix the problem hose using copper pipe and a couple of jubilee clips, the car carried on with no ill effects. It is said that friction reducing additives can also reduce fuel consumption but I could neither confirm or deny this as I've never checked to see for myself.

Anyway after my 650 mile trip in the scudo last weekend, I checked the oil level and it was still exactly on the high notch on the dipstick. This made me breath a sigh of relief because when my EGR throttle valve was misbehaving itself, it was somehow causing engine oil to be expelled via a breather somewhere down the back of the engine. Of course at the time I didn't know what my problem was or that the escaping oil was in anyway connected. It just made those warning bells go off in my head and the little voices in my ears were telling me that I must have bought a real pile of shite & maybe the head gasket or rocker cover gasket needed changing. Nothing could have been further from the truth however, now I'm really pleased that I bought my little 2006 scudo van and at £850 I would say that I certainly wasn't robbed.

Cheers, Griff.

Last edited by GRIFFIN (2019-05-11 14:10:49)


If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same

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#20 2019-05-10 23:27:12

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,128

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Nut. 35 is the best i got but that was an average down to the Black Forrest and back up to some of Holland so 70-75 on motorways and up and down the box in the hills on the Black Forrest and some of them were steep. Even back home driving sensible i only got 33 ish and this was a 170k van.
Your slick50. I remember years ago using that on a motorbike. How was i to know it was a wet clutch sad Is it still expensive?
Talking price i paid 800 for this 04 van. Serviced, new starter, new tyres, new quality battery. Few bashes on the body from the inside out but its a works van so im happy as i should get a good few years out it yet

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#21 2019-05-11 06:10:43

loutennant
Member
Registered: 2019-05-07
Posts: 29

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Did you block your valve also Loutennant?

I certainly did.

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#22 2019-05-12 17:10:01

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,128

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

OK i blocked two pipes. Unfortunately as i was putting a new exhaust system on i could not see if this has cured my cold start issue so ill know tomorrow but..................

Look at the below picture. This is my EGR. Why is there a butterfly there? My convoy does not have this just the valve what is behind. I am going to clean this carap all out and the inlet manifold as the fresh intake are will be taking some of that crap back into the engine will it not? Thinking this also got me thinking............. Does the regurgitated exhaust gas come in from the left? If so i am thinking its better to have a blanking plate. Reason being surely some of the gas is still coming up that pipe and into this chamber then into the engine as its sucks clean air. Now if you look behind you have a horizontal and vertical pole/valve. If the horizontal one is the main EGR than i am talking crap and what would the other be for as i only have the one on my convoy.


20190512-121102.jpg

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#23 2019-05-13 01:18:59

GRIFFIN
Member
From: DURHAM
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 140

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Yeah Casper, that butterfly is the EGR throttle, the vacuum pipe that you are blanking off would normally cause that to close, which draws more exhaust smoke in from the EGR valve on the left left. If you blank off the vacuum it will stay open. Also you don't need a blanking plate for the EGR valve because when you blank the other vacuum pipe off, the EGR valve stays shut, completely preventing exhaust gasses from entering the inlet.

I agree it would be worth cleaning the crap out as well, Mine was not as bad as yours but I used WD40, white spirit and dried it off with carb or brake cleaner.

If you haven't done so already, I'd change the air filter as well just to be on the safe side.

Last edited by GRIFFIN (2019-05-13 01:20:49)


If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same

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#24 2019-05-13 16:58:20

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 2,128

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

Yeah that makes sense about the butterfly. I was probably looking for something more like what is in my convoy but then again that may be different as its a turbo. Yeah i did look at the air filter and it is a bit mucky so ill order up a new one and spend a day under the bonnet cleaning all that out. I have 5lt of break and clutch cleaner already what is handy tongue

My cold start issue is now cured. As for any MPG gain that will have to wait till i do a run somewhere, as all my work is local that may be some time. Yeah the cold start. It was like a misfire in a petrol engine. As far as i can work out a EGR only works in the low rev range so quite possibly mine is returning/closing very slowly due to all the gunk so when i accelerate more it was kind of chocking itself.

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#25 2019-05-16 11:08:25

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,311

Re: EGR VALVE FIX

I decided to try this out first on the 306..........
But got a bit confused at first but then realised that we'd had a similar conversation recently how In my presumption they both were the same........

But different (306= DW8....Van =DW8/B)

So on the 306 Ive only got the one vacum that we can't see and No EGR throttle..........

306-bay.jpg

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