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#1 2021-05-28 09:19:49

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 402

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#2 2021-05-28 21:20:35

dRoyd
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 25

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

I suppose it’s the future although by the time I can afford something like that I’ll be too old to drive!

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#3 2021-05-28 23:02:00

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 402

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

Hi

dRoyd wrote:

I suppose it’s the future although by the time I can afford something like that I’ll be too old to drive!

Feels like we are drifting into the end of personal transport. Elsewhere I see that Euro7 appears to be designed to kill the combustion engine well  before the deadline, that iis unrealistic to start with.

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#4 2021-05-29 11:15:15

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,150

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

I'm like dRoyd I'll probably be past driving age .......
To old to be going anywhere to visit unless I'm pushed in a wheelchair .......
It does feel like personal transport is becoming a thing of the past ..........
[A victim of it's own success] .........
And probably is unless we become Dutch and get a pedal cycle

Hydrogen Fuel cells do make a certain sense ...........
Pity like there's only 3 places in the whole UK that the public is able to fill at .........
We need something like Hydrogen that's clean and existing engines can at least be adapted to ............
Without the need to entirely to scrap one whole mode of transport to produce a whole other mode .........
That currently does not have any real infrastructure and can take hours stopped and hooked up to replenish the Fuel tank when already the 5 or 10 minutes of deviation to do so is a real PITA for the needs of life style ..........

It's one reason why self charging Hybrids make sense to more than just some folk ........
Notwithstanding  the fact that the whole world economy is based on one Fuel ... Diesel ! (Jet Aicraft might use a parafin type fuel a Kerosene but it's still basicly a light heating oil fuel [Kero])

The private sector that is so often banded about by Governments as " Will take up the slack " It will only do so when 1. There's a profit in it 2.And if profits give them the ability/insentive to do so  ........
I don't see them making that move/investment until they've squeezed every last worthwhile penny out of the status quo ......
I do see them preparing and to try and protect their profits by doing the absolute minimum spend .........

We after a while Champion the Mavrick like Sir Clive Sinclair who Risked everything ..........
Ultimately Failed .............
Saying he was a visionary of our future needs [Maybe so] Didn't stop his bankruptcy nor does it put beans on his table ..........

I took up the mantle and fitted LPG [Duel fuel...There was a spend benifit to the heavish investment ] to a Range Rover Vouge SE{Automatic} that I had a long Long time ago [It was a 1992 on a J and it would have been about 1998... I also remember saying FFS when new it cost the same as getting the house built a year before].....

Joke time....."There's two man made things visible from space One is The Great Wall of China ... The other is The Panel Gaps on a Range Rover"

At about the same time my Ex employer from many moons previous bought a new Saab to be able to take advantage of the E85 Fuel that the Government had touted as the next big thing and tried to convince and get manufactures to develop ........
Saab was the only one and E85 never appeared in the mainstream

My own plight faired slightly better in that on petrol I saw as low as 9-10 mpg around town ..........
The LPG conversion returned in the region of 13 to 17 mpg depending.........(Nearer 15- 22 ish mpg on petrol)
Which is less than petrol would return {Because of a lower calorific content} But because then it was so cheap and a waste product burnt off at the refinery......[still is to an exstent] ....
It worked out same running costs as a 200 or 300 TDI Diesel [Approx 28mpg on a run] ............
However you had to plan your route to go anywhere to make sure it was stocked and you could get fuel ...............
[About 1/4 25% saving overal and not cut your bills in half]

It reigned till I felt I'd washed my face and sold it on about 3 years and a set of head caskets later .......
I admit it enhanced Value of car ... But in reality it barely helped sell it ............
(Another mode of propulsion not really catered for) ..............

It's also a very dry/cold fuel that in long term use needs addressed .......... {More than the basic kit for it to run}

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#5 2021-05-29 12:00:38

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 181

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

In Bristol they've introduced these public electric scooters. They're everywhere and either slowing down traffic or coming at you on the pavements.

Sadly, I think this is the only personal transport that young people will be able to afford now. No first car for them, just clinging to the handlebars of a rented scooter in the pouring rain.


Fiat Scudo 2004 (54) 2.0 Jtd SX Dynamic Van

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#6 2021-05-29 14:47:31

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,150

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

woodbine wrote:

In Bristol they've introduced these public electric scooters. They're everywhere and either slowing down traffic or coming at you on the pavements.

Sadly, I think this is the only personal transport that young people will be able to afford now. No first car for them, just clinging to the handlebars of a rented scooter in the pouring rain.

I've seen news reports about the legality of the Scooters and the studies and the expansion of them Hiring out and Ludicrous behaviour with them, The way there abandond on pavements and streets also the death of a pensioner because of them
I've got 4 kids youngest is 26 and only one of the 4 has a driving license and can't afford to have/use a car and their 30

Who in there right mind thinks that after the Lockdowns  to railroad ahead the implementation of a clean air zone in Birmingham is a good idea and that said closed businesses can now afford to renew their fleet if it's vehicle{s} is/are older than IIRC Aug 2015 registered otherwise incur a daily penalty charge.......

How does that clean up the enviroment when...........
1. Throw away perfectly good working vehicles and expend energy building new ones...
2. Paying a fine and driving said high polluting vehicle.....
3. If this is the case why will people or business keep them in good order if their investment is worthless in a few years and on paper it's as green as possible but in reality pollutes more than a 40 year old daily driver that's well maintained.........

The scrappage scheme showed the trend and got rid of the old gems and left the sh** behind because not everyone can afford a new car even the cheapest new......
I can only PI*H with the Co** I've got..........

As said previous we need to do something..........
But is this the answer other than jumping on the green impossible shangri la band wagon.......
We look good Sound Eco Friendly and do what...... " F*** All"

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#7 2021-05-30 09:35:23

cliffo
Member
Registered: 2017-08-04
Posts: 120

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

I have often said that one way to speed up the take-up of electric vehicles would be to have a standardised size of fuel cells/batteries. They then get treated like Calor gas bottles - you buy the first one and then exchange for full (with the price of the fuel only) whenever you need a fill up. Just drive to a filling station, pull out your empty fuel cell, swap it for a full one, pay and drive off. The station then fills up the old one (with charge or hydrogen, whatever) and puts it back on the shelf.

Charge time is one of the biggest drags on uptake - if you're driving a distance then you don't want to park up for 30-120 minutes each time you need to recharge...

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#8 2021-05-30 13:28:10

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,150

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

@Cliffo ..... You present some very valid points of EV's slow up take - of refueling time and a simple solution to that........
However there are certain flaws in the solution that need and can be cost effectively addressed.................
But that's where the first agument starts ... "A standard size shape fuel cell" .....
At one time pretty much all cars had 7 inch round (seald beam) headlights But now Headlghts are individual to a model....

A simple soloution is whats needed that we will accept .....
The whole world as expensive as it feels has come to this point including/creating the pollution because of Technology of the period.......
And the economical [financial] use and exploitation of resources available to bring the goods to our location as cheaply as possible..........
Also the spin offs of profits from that i.e. cheap travel-package holidays  and other sevices which fulfill our lifestyle...........

"Electric cars are nothing new they've been about since the start of motoring and have been used successfully in lots of ways.....
Milk Floats ....Town car-So not to scare the horses pulling the carts about  and again probably delivering milk {Express Dairies to name one used until the 1950's} or pulling the Fruit stall .........
But all these EV's were local use, Out and back on a charge, replenish over night and being cost effective at their job........

At this point I was going to give more examples But .......

This is a Beta max V's VHS battle and the better product may still not win..........

One of the things My Grandfather told me several years ago and to an extent Lived my life like that.........
He said if I "earn a pound and spend 99p = happiness".........
"But spend  a £1.01= misery"..............

Everything so far is based on - "We want the best we can get and to go as far as How deep our pockets will take us"..........
It's Nature "Get as much as you can for least effort"...........

Like it or not I think we're going for another Maggie Thatcher moment of changing a nations Expectations I think is the word .......

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#9 2021-05-30 15:53:44

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 402

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

cliffo wrote:

I have often said that one way to speed up the take-up of electric vehicles would be to have a standardised size of fuel cells/batteries. They then get treated like Calor gas bottles - you buy the first one and then exchange for full (with the price of the fuel only) whenever you need a fill up. Just drive to a filling station, pull out your empty fuel cell, swap it for a full one, pay and drive off. The station then fills up the old one (with charge or hydrogen, whatever) and puts it back on the shelf.

Charge time is one of the biggest drags on uptake - if you're driving a distance then you don't want to park up for 30-120 minutes each time you need to recharge...

Chinese ev maker has set up 250 battery swap station in China and looking to double this in the next year.
Not to sure it's a great idea, because you don't really know what you are getting each time.
Tesla tested it out in 2013 and decided not to proceed.

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#10 2021-05-31 01:17:21

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,150

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

My Rants probably make it sound as if I'm against Ev's and or change ..............
personally I don't believe is true........

I have considered a hybrid .......
Even looked at a Nissan Leaf for 2 reasons .....
1. It's been about us since 2011  (I've even seen a couple in scrappies because of age and a biff)....2.Because of the use we need from a car  (getting old and not venturing so far) and would have the 306 or Van as a second car anyway ..........

First of all I was very nearly time wise anyway born in the USA ...........
My parents emigrated there in the mid 50's..............
Mother has always been the boss (As is allways the case)
And after 2 Years in Dayton Ohio Just when Father was finding his feet (Established and making headway in a job)
Mother (Still in her 20's, I believe was still tied to her own mothers hip) .....
Became home sick and they returned and very quickly they decided a mistake had been made and planned to return...........

But Mother and Father were back to square one as he had no job there now and would have to start the process from scratch........
And about six months or so later, It happens I'm on the way.............
Cost to emigrate and a new baby soon mount  .........

Irrespective of what I've been told I believe 1. I was a big reason emigration didn't continue 2. I was a mistake a "surprise" when there's almost 9 years between you and your sister ... "We decided we were re-established and could now afford another child" (Doesn't cut it with me)......
I always assumed because I've never asked why, But Fathers Sister was a G.I. bride and they saw what her living standards were... Encouraged them to go ........
Hence I've quite a few relatives out there ..........

Father having been a Motorcycle Road Racer and quite a bit of a car guy ........
(Fathers always a big Jaguar and Mercedes man and had a couple  But more over PA,PB or PC Vauxhall Cresta's and various Zodiacs from my Memory)
I think it rubbed of on me over formitive years............
Probably why I've alway been partial to Motorcycles a V8 but more over a straight 6 .........

I've had  fairly visceral relationships with dinosaur fueled vehicles .........
About 4 years after Divorce (About 2004/5) I bought a 450Bhp Nissan GTR R33 Victory spec {A middlife crisis moment?}........
A year or so after I had to sell it among other things to afford to pay off her half of settlement plus I got pulled just about every time I used it (Naughty Boy and just waiting for you to take car out {Or felt like it} Something to do with exhaust pipe flames ... "I've not always been a fuddy duddy")
My first diesel car was my 89 Montego turbo D 7 seat estate [Although is past its sell by date I still have it] that I bought in August 1992 .........
(That's another story when and why I bought it)


But back to the Nissan Leaf...........
First off I couldn't figure why some really much older and higher milage cars were so much more expensive than younger lower mileage ones ............
At first I was told Batteries ... I thought age and mileage thing and those cars batteries had been renewed at great expense.......
But No ... It turned out that the very much cheaper Leafs didn't have their own batteries but a monthly rental contract for batteries that went with the car ............


I find that off puting .......
That either way no matter what I do, Our government is either threatening or issuing penalty fine and has or someones has a hand inside fleecing out my pocket........
In the name of making it carbon free.........

I'm not opposed to changed or new technology.........
I'm just allergic to the impossible and impractical lying BS that's dished out in the name of zero carbon and sleaze free politics............

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#11 2021-05-31 08:04:21

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 1,858

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

What is it, another 10 years before the sale of new cars are made illegal or production stopes. Ill be 67 by then and as i but cars that are 10-15 years old anyway i think i may be OK for a good five year or more after that if the price of fuel has not risen to push me off the road. I should be in my mid 70's by then and probably not to bothered about driving by then. My prediction for around that time is only the rich can be on the road and the rest will be renting or public transport. There will be mass unemployment with the lack of back street garages, petrol stations, sales showrooms, aftermarket shops, motor factors and i dare say a few others. A small fraction will be re employed in other areas.

Ghost towns u and down the country they rely on passing tourist trade will be gone. More rural the more chance you are stuffed. Tourist industry will be on its knees. Apart from freight the ferry's will be making a loss due to the lack of driving holidays. Can you imagine the price of a electric campervan and if lucky to get 200 miles up the road you need to wait a long time to get another 200. Lots of smaller truck companies will be gone and unless they act now and get the old closed railway lines open again for goods then i see the cost of living shooting through the roof. OK For the sake of the planet the bigger picture has to change but i dont think the change is going to be cheap nor easy plus its not going to be easy getting all of Asia to change

Another thing i can see the the emergency services switching to electricity. Could you imagine an ambulance loosing power taking some poor sod to hospital under the blue lights or the fire services racing to a fire. Nah, there will always be a need for fossil fuel.

Van i am sire i read hybrid will be phased out along with the combustion engine

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#12 2021-06-01 11:56:14

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,150

Re: Expert e-hydrogen

Yes Casper your right, It's something like 2030 and no more Dinosaur fueled  new cars  allowed to be sold.....
And Hybrids have IIRC a reprieve for a couple years longer........
[Does that mean everything other than EV becomes "Pre-registered"]

Your also right ... if the cost of fuel is not high enough as it is with I think it 69 or 70 % tax on  top ........
We are bound to be priced off the road with punitive tax additions as a fine to punish us ......
How does that benifit the Eco System ... The Economy .... other than those that have the money to drive there ......
That'll be those that fly in a helicopter just now because the roads are busy......
And the roads won't be so busy then and they have Range Anxiety in the Electric helicopters available......

Talking of EV's how long before masive road Tax hikes on them......
Already they've hit Tesla that takes up to 5years I believe before it's road tax at zero............
This I assume it will be what the new norm is to be...........
MSRP  of car/Vehicle when new will determine Road Fund.........
Then who know's what............

None of that really bothers me how else are we allegegly to fund roads.......
But no dout a British Government will find away to fleece us in the name of fairness .............

And the Asian Market or emerging third world countries.....
Well their a big reason of Diesel shortages  here and faster climate changes ..........
As said before the world economy is based on Diesel power.........
1. All the sh** they produce ... We buy it and have transported here....
2. You can't blame Ordinary Folk there after 100 hours in the Sweat shop if their now better off than before.....
They want a car and it appears it's a Diesel car mostly their after ..............

I assume this like us back in the day to replace the motor bike as ordinary man's main transport that we once had also..........
Asia is full of the Honda and rip offs of the Cub or super Cub 90 .........
Honda even drived the CG125 for that market using push rods instead of OHC's becase of poorer servicing, simplicity and ruggedness of their engines........

It's all cyclical So maybe it's our turn to be proprly third world..............

I commend the efforts and inspirations to the likes of Captain Tom........
But are we aready not putting in all the tax Revenue collected and relying on a person who's 100 years old to raise the needed funds ...........

I believe our Governments have a budget for every facilty of spending their ment to cover......
Education, Military, Police ETC ..........
But I never ever hear that there's a budget for MP Expenses

What happened to conviction politics .............
Did the Newly elected MP go into the palace of Westminster and someone showed an Expense sheet/list and said "look what you can get!"..........

Another phrase and that took me some pondering that My Grandfather come out with was ...
"When it comes to  Money the only person to trust is the one with Hair on the Palm of their Hand"

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