Van won't start...

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-08-29 19:09:31

So this morning I tried to start the van. The engine was cranking, but wouldn't start. I primed the fuel bulb as I have had to do previously when it's been sitting for more than a day, and unusually I had to turn it over a few times before it finally started. Yay, I closed the bonnet, jumped in, and proceeded to turn around. Part way through my three point turn, I stalled. No worries, I turned it over again, and chug chug chug, oh no, flat battery... the dreaded "click" upon turning the key with not even a sound from the starter motor.

So, I put the battery on charge - sure enough, my repeated turning over had depleted it according to the display on my battery charger.

Fast forward three or four hours, my charger indicates its got 4 blobs of power (out of 4) so I put it back in. Upon turning the key into the ignition position, the usual battery light & the oil light came on, but the STOP light was also flashing (can't remember if that's normal). There was a series of rapid clicks (several relay open/closing sounds).

I waited... turned the key, and "click" - nothing. No starter turning.

So I've put the battery back on charge in the hope that's its just not enough power.

But, the strange thing is that this morning after I flattened the battery, I tried to jump start it with the car and it wouldn't turn over. This was shortly after I stalled it.

Could this possibly be a sign of something failing/failed? There have been no signs that the starter motor is giving out. And its never failed to start before over the past few weeks I've had it. I'm hoping it is simply a flat battery - does anyone have a suggestion for me?

EDIT: Could it be the starter? Or immobiliser perhaps? And is there a way to check these?

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-08-29 19:11:05)

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-08-29 19:24:38

Just a note, when I tried jump starting, I was in a rush and didn't wait a few minutes before attempting to start - I know you should give it 5 mins with the leads connected, but when it didn't immediately start, I just cut my losses and stuck the battery on charge and went out in the car. The battery is back on charge again and I'm hoping all will be well come morning (pray roll )

EDIT: Battery that is in the van currently (well, technically not in the van as it is currently on charge in my living room big_smile ) is a PP075 pro power - I rubbed the label to remove the dirt that was on it, and ended up scratching off the text that indicates the amp hours! I can see 12V and 500A, but no longer can I read the AH value, though I'm sure it was 54AH or 45AH - I found the same battery online after searching for Pro Power PP075, as pictured below... PP075 Pro Power 12V 500A 50Ah
I think this may be an after market and underpowered addition to the vehicle, was on it when I bought it, which may explain why after three or four hours on charge it still isn't enough to start the van. I think even the battery in my Peugeot 207 is higher power than this! @ 60AH.

Found a better picture...
battery.jpg?i=1

EDIT: Hmm, looks like an issue with my domain not allowing images to be linked directly - let's try again :

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-08-29 20:40:58)

kenbw2 · 2021-08-29 20:56:26

Meh, I downsized my starting battery to 45Ah to make room for the leisure battery. It's been fine so I wouldn't expect the smaller Ah to be a problem. Maybe if it's a dud though it might be

The STOP light flashing is normal

It won't be the immobiliser - I have a key that doesn't have the chip in it. It turns over but never starts. The immobiliser stops the pump injecting fuel

Do your dash lights go off when you try to start it, like the battery is being depleted? Might be worth checking its voltage when you (attempt to) crank the engine

Last edited by kenbw2 (2021-08-29 20:57:07)

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-08-29 22:07:58

kenbw2 wrote:

Meh, I downsized my starting battery to 45Ah to make room for the leisure battery. It's been fine so I wouldn't expect the smaller Ah to be a problem. Maybe if it's a dud though it might be
The STOP light flashing is normal
It won't be the immobiliser - I have a key that doesn't have the chip in it. It turns over but never starts. The immobiliser stops the pump injecting fuel
Do your dash lights go off when you try to start it, like the battery is being depleted? Might be worth checking its voltage when you (attempt to) crank the engine

Yes, the lights go off - then when I let go of the key they come back on again. Like I said above, it's been a great runner since I bought it a few weeks ago. I've only ran into this issue because I (stupidly) kept trying to turn it over when pumping the fuel a few times didn't work as usual... when I eventually fired the darn thing, it was running fine, but I guess I cranked it just that once too many, and then bloody stalled the thing mad - had I not stalled, the altenator would have charged the battery by the time I got to my destination and I would have been none-the-wiser. Always learn from your mistakes, that's what I say...

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-08-30 13:23:09

No turn over after nearly 24hr charge? That's not right?

OAT · 2021-08-30 13:59:06

What was the voltage after charging?

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-08-30 15:42:39

OAT wrote:

What was the voltage after charging?

Display on charger says 14.2V. I'll stick volt meter over the terminals when I get back.

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-08-30 15:43:15)

kenbw2 · 2021-08-31 12:24:08

If the battery's properly fudged it'll take the 14.2V while charging and drop down as soon as the charge is removed

Worth checking the voltage after it's been off charge for a while

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-08-31 14:30:27

I've joined the AA last night - £10 a month cover for any vehicle. Wait 24hrs, call them out.

Where is the starter motor BTW?

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-08-31 14:31:01)

kenbw2 · 2021-08-31 14:46:22

Down the front, near the flywheel/gearbox

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-08-31 15:03:43

kenbw2 wrote:

Down the front, near the flywheel/gearbox

A mechanic friend of mine has suggested hitting it with a hammer whilst trying to turn over the van lol

OAT · 2021-08-31 17:32:54

That can work if your starter tends to stick and not engage.

Not sure what type of starter is fitted though. Would not help with a pre-engaged starter.

Can you get at the starters terminals to attach a live feed direct?

kenbw2 · 2021-08-31 19:30:39

BlantyreBotanicals wrote:

kenbw2 wrote:
Down the front, near the flywheel/gearbox
A mechanic friend of mine has suggested hitting it with a hammer whilst trying to turn over the van

It can work! You can also put it in gear, rock the van forwards and backwards a bit and then try the key again

vaz2121 · 2021-09-01 05:06:51

Kenbw2 and OAT are on the money here as for hitting starter when turning over it's a old trick to get a dud starter to spin [or free a sticky one] a last few times but doesnt always work ... Depending how many times it's been done or how fubbard ... Ive had instance where jumper cables are just not attached well enough to give the required jucie .................
Check battery is up to [Doing] job ... I've had on a diesel, battery perform flawless and for no reason other than better known to it's self to effectively commit Suicide ... Work fine, turn of vehicle ..all seems good but not restart engine just click and on battery test --totally fubbard........................

Last edited by vaz2121 (2021-09-01 05:10:04)

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-09-01 17:00:14

AA man has just been - got van running in 2 seconds towing it behind his van - but as to the starter motor, he hotwired it and still just got a click.

Although since he (tried to) hotwired it, it doesn't even click anymore when you turn the key? Hope he hasn't blown a fuse. Anyhoo, I need a new starter motor. £30 from the local scrapyard, however I can get a new one from the local auto parts shop for £50 plus VAT - might as well get a new one with warranty etc, than a pot-luck used one from a scrappy - and the scrappy didn't have any in stock anyhoo.

So, looks like my evening is sorted yikes

AlvyLad · 2021-09-01 17:28:36

sounds like magnet('s) got clogged up overheated and dropped off jamming the current, hence blowing fuses, but does pretend to try to turn (not on particfular van, on my BMW bike that happened years ago... roll

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-09-01 21:57:50

Latest update... spent the last hour/two hours removing things so I can get at the starter motor.

TBF it was plain sailing until about an hour ago, when I tried to undo the last big hex bolt to get the darn thing off.... firstly there's a big ball-jointy thing right in front of the bolt head - so the hex wrench doesn't fit straight in, and even with the extension it sits at a slight maybe 1 degree angle...

No matter how much force I use, the bolt just won't budge. I've soaked it in WD40 and still won't move. I even bent my bendy socket extension bar trying to turn the bloody thing.

Long story short, I've called it a night. I need the thing off to take it to the shop and confirm the replacement is the right one (as well as needing it off to, well, replace, lol )

Anyone got ideas on how to remove a stuck bolt? The hex-head has started to round now, so I doubt this bolt is going to be reusable and may just drill it out, if I can access the thing with a drill.

Someone suggested applying heat - although I'm wary over applying a naked flame to an engine compartment that is quite oily. A chefs creme brulee burner could suffice. Any ideas on where I might find a heat induction tool, that would use electricity through a coil that wraps around the nut/bolt, instead of a flame?

Last edited by BlantyreBotanicals (2021-09-01 22:00:02)

kenbw2 · 2021-09-01 22:13:07

Oh man, sounds like a ballache. A lot like my bolts that went through the floor for the seats.

If it does turn even slightly anticlockwise, try turning it back clockwise to work things loose.

But I don't envy you, that sounds like a pain in the arse

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-09-02 22:41:17

Good news! Van is now running... took most of the day, drilled out the bolt, couldn't reach far enough (with trips to Wilko, B&M and finally B&Q to get a butane blow torch) - heated the bolt, stuck a rounded 8mm hex bolt into it, tapped that with a hammer a few times until it fell out. Rinse repeat, then stuck it other way around (without the rounded end) heated bolt a bit more, noticed slave cylinder was smoking (and finally noticed the second bolt to detach it! If I had noticed that in the first place, I would have had straight access to the bolt and probably not had all this hassle in the first place - live and learn) - so finally I heard the nut crack, and voila, I could undo it - very stiff, very tight but it came (with a dirty great hole in the side)...

Took the part to auto parts, got a replacement, a 1.4kW one (they had two, both identical, except one was 1.4kW and other was 1.7kW, chap says the 1.4kW seemed to sell 3 times as much so that was probably the one)... 20 mins after getting back up, it was on the van, all the bits reattached, and running like a new machine!

BlantyreBotanicals · 2021-09-03 03:06:06

I created a video which I will upload to YouTube once I edited it. Luckily for my I didn't keep recording the 3-4 hours I spent trying to undo one bloody bolt ?

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#1 2021-08-29 19:09:31

Van won't start...

#2 2021-08-29 19:24:38

Re: Van won't start...

#3 2021-08-29 20:56:26

Re: Van won't start...

#4 2021-08-29 22:07:58

Re: Van won't start...

#5 2021-08-30 13:23:09

Re: Van won't start...

#6 2021-08-30 13:59:06

Re: Van won't start...

#7 2021-08-30 15:42:39

Re: Van won't start...

#8 2021-08-31 12:24:08

Re: Van won't start...

#9 2021-08-31 14:30:27

Re: Van won't start...

#10 2021-08-31 14:46:22

Re: Van won't start...

#11 2021-08-31 15:03:43

Re: Van won't start...

#12 2021-08-31 17:32:54

Re: Van won't start...

#13 2021-08-31 19:30:39

Re: Van won't start...

#14 2021-09-01 05:06:51

Re: Van won't start...

#15 2021-09-01 17:00:14

Re: Van won't start...

#16 2021-09-01 17:28:36

Re: Van won't start...

#17 2021-09-01 21:57:50

Re: Van won't start...

#18 2021-09-01 22:13:07

Re: Van won't start...

#19 2021-09-02 22:41:17

Re: Van won't start...

#20 2021-09-03 03:06:06

Re: Van won't start...

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