2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

Joshwaa · 2024-10-08 12:58:25

JohnDragonMan wrote:

i think we need to start diagnosing why you cant connect to the ecu via the OBD port. it sounds to me like the ecu is not powering up.
**This is what is confusing me, when I plug a scanner in it, itpowers up just won't communicate with the van**
so. my knowledge on these vans is not all that good (yes really).
do you get all lights on the dash come on when you turn the ignition on? including the yellow transistor... err the thing that looks like a "K" otherwise known as the check engine light?
**I'm not sure on this, I now know which symbol you mean after a quick Google but I don't ever recall seeing it....but I've never looked for it for the last 4 years of trouble free motoring it's been start and go without fail.**
if that lights up it usually means that the ECU is in good order while on ignition only. (seriously try it on other stuff, if you uplug the ecu the check engine light goes out.. its a good way to find out if the ecu has a power issue)
the ECU will still power up even if it has an immobiliser fault.. say the RFID chip in the key stops working. you will still get the yellow "K" looking light
**The immobiliser light is flashing every second or 2 on the dash, once keys are in and turned it goes off....I'm Presuming this is normaly "yes I know your keys" **
one thing to try is a jumper cable clamped to the metal body of the ECU then to the negative battery terminal. this would eliminate any earthing faults.
**I'll give this a go later on this evening as well I've got some small cable knocking about.**
i also would actually unplug the main ecu connectors (with the battery disconnected) to see what the condition of the connectors are like.
**This resolved someone else's same problem the other week I saw the same outcome would be ideal. Vans coming up 20 year old this is going to become common now I think.**
i would also check your ignition switch.. you can test the switch easy. drop the steering wheel down using the adjuster, take off the cowling top cover and you will see the main igntion switch plug.
unplug all connectors with large wires they will be colours like white, blue and i think yellow.. maybe others. they will be the only large wires.
now make sure you van is in neutral or if you are unsure keep the clutch pressed down because the next step could engage the starter motor.
get a thick ish bit of wire and bridge across the different wires on i think the left side plugs (youll get some little sparks but the power in a car battery is very safe to touch so worry not about electric shocks it wont happen). one will be battery power, one will be ignition switch position 1 (acc), one will be ignition switch position 2 which is glow plug mode/engine run (the one that powers up the ecu), and one will be the starter.
you are effectively bypassing the ignition switch. if you power glow plug mode and the ecu "K" light comes on this is good it means the ecu lives again and the solution is to replace the ignition switch
i repaired a Vauxhall Zafera with this same fault once.. been to 3 separate garages and they diagnosed it with a dead ecu. these "plug in" mechanics only know what an ECU will tell them. you need an old school mechanic.
shame you are not local to me i would have come and had a look.. i really like electrical work on vehicles.
now as far as i know, the ECU does have a relay.. i am pretty sure its commonly referred to as the "glow plug" relay. i have never known one to fail but i guess its a possibility. its located kinda behind the drivers side headlight (if its right hand drive)
i mean you could also test for voltage on a sensor while the ignition is on too. that way we would know if the ECU is functioning. give the mas air flow sensor a unplug and test for voltage on the different pins. one of them (i think there's 4 or 5 on these) will have some kind of voltage on it while the ignition is in glow plug mode. #
to test for voltage use a simple bulb test. get a small wattage bulb like say a side light bulb, earth one side with some wire and the other side will be the testing probe. try not to short anything out with it though.. the ecu does auto kill power to the sensors if it detects a dead short thanfully, it wont burn its self out.
now i think the sensors only work on about 5v so the bulb will only glow a bit.. i could be wrong though i have tested many ecus over the years.. it all merges into one.
**This makes sense and is a good shout, if the power to the ecu is fine but the ecu isn't telling the mag sensor to....sense. Then either the mag sensor is dead or the ECU is a cabbage.**
on some vehicles, pin 1 on the OBD port can be an ignition live but its not standardised. i am not sure if our vans are like this.
i hope some of this helps in some way.
fun fact: the "K" on the ECU light on our vans is the electrical symbol for a component called a Transistor.

*Edit* I'm new to this forum replying so not sure how to quote a paragraph so I've just edited your post and added ** to my replies

Thanks for this write up and everyone else who has commented....hoping it'll be back on road in no time and having a projector light conversion cool

I'll post back later tonight or tomorrow with any findings....hopefully good ones.

Last edited by Joshwaa (2024-10-08 13:04:43)

JohnDragonMan · 2024-10-08 16:45:35

it is so rare for an ecu to self destruct. its always down to something else.

yes the OBD scan tools.. they will always power up when plugged in as the obd port has a battery live in it that powers them up. wink

now thats interesting.. i have never known an "immobiliser" light on the dash to flash on mine. which light is that? just looking at the dash now.. using this rather large photo stolen from here (https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/foru … hp?id=1543) which light is that?

i am guessing the one next to the unlit glow plug light bottom left and the lit ECU light?
could be a water in diesel filter light though i just cant make it out.
i sadly dont have my handbook.. to hand.

let me know or take a photo of it and attach it on here.
this is most interesting.

yes do report back if anything works.

Joshwaa · 2024-10-08 17:59:10

JohnDragonMan wrote:

it is so rare for an ecu to self destruct. its always down to something else.
yes the OBD scan tools.. they will always power up when plugged in as the obd port has a battery live in it that powers them up.
now thats interesting.. i have never known an "immobiliser" light on the dash to flash on mine. which light is that? just looking at the dash now.. using this rather large photo stolen from here (https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/foru … hp?id=1543) which light is that?

https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/foru … 45181.jpeg
i am guessing the one next to the unlit glow plug light bottom left and the lit ECU light?
could be a water in diesel filter light though i just cant make it out.
i sadly dont have my handbook.. to hand.
let me know or take a photo of it and attach it on here.
this is most interesting.
yes do report back if anything works.

Finding 1 - no K light
Finding 2 - no K light bulb
Finding 3 - no K light even with bulb

RegW · 2024-10-08 19:34:09

quote:
"JohnDragonMan wrote:

it is so rare for an ecu to self destruct. its always down to something else."

I agree its usually poor connections or sensor/relay/other device failure
Did you open check clean and refit the ECU connectors?
Sometimes just remaking the connection is enough to cut through any oxidisation and get something working

Joshwaa · 2024-10-08 19:39:14

Yeah all 3 connections taken off cleaned, electrical cleaner and re installed they were manky but no signs of corrosion.

The 'K' check engine light does not light up at all even with a working bulb from another location. In any of the igntion sequence

There is voltage at the maf sensor

There is voltage at the fuel pump relay

All fuses are good

Ignition switch was bypassed using a wire

Wire from ECU to battery negative was tried, still the same

Earth's taken off and cleaned

...... sad

Will the ECU send power out to sensors if it was buggerd?

Last edited by Joshwaa (2024-10-08 19:42:14)

RegW · 2024-10-08 23:37:11

"Will the ECU send power out to sensors if it was buggered?"
Yes. quite possibly
some of the interfacing electronics in the ECU may be live even if they're not doing anything

I mentioned the inertia (Impact) relay but see nothing to suggest its been checked electrically .

It should have power in on the red wire No 1421 ( from the multi function relay)
and power out on the green wire No 1203 which goes to the ECU
at all times unless an impact opens the contacts.

Last edited by RegW (2024-10-08 23:40:11)

Joshwaa · 2024-10-09 07:20:13

RegW wrote:

"Will the ECU send power out to sensors if it was buggered?"
Yes. quite possibly
some of the interfacing electronics in the ECU may be live even if they're not doing anything

I mentioned the inertia (Impact) relay but see nothing to suggest its been checked electrically .
It should have power in on the red wire No 1421 ( from the multi function relay)
and power out on the green wire No 1203 which goes to the ECU
at all times unless an impact opens the contacts.

Sorry, I've completely missed checking the voltage on this inertia switch

I've pressed it but it doesn't do anything no resistance when pressed or a click. I presume when triggered there's a definite press when reset

I'm next at the van on Thursday I'll test this switch with a multimeter failing that I think I'm going to send ecu away for testing.

With the code reader not connecting
No engine management light illuminating
No fuel been primed
Turns over strong
New fuel pump
New fuel pump relay (with power going to it)

I'm only £70 into it and my time as it stands and it's just sat there looking sorry for its self.

There must be an electrical gremlin about somewhere whether that's a plug, wire, sensor or signal not been sent

Failing that there's a good immobiliser guy local to me which is still a possibility I suppose but the obd socket has power....would a faulty immobiliser lock not work and in turn stop anything communicating to the ecu?

Thanks for the replies

JohnDragonMan · 2024-10-09 22:46:45

if anyone was local you could get them to plug your ecu into their van., it wont start but if you at least get the ecu light to come on you will know its a fault with your van and not the ecu.

thankfully the ecus for these things are quite cheap. i have seen a full replacement set (ecu, key, bcm, rfid antenna, even door locks and fuel cap) for £100

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/167002988643 … R5rG7LPOZA

im quite upset as my very local pick and pull scrap yard has closed down recently. yes i practically lived there. had many good cars from it. 2 of which had less than 21k miles! a seat marbella with 19k (i wish i still had) and a mk3 diesel fiat panda with 20k i driven back home as i fixed it on the spot...with no parts needed! after i paid for it that was hehe

i bet i could have got you the whole kit for 40 quid.. i do have a replacement kit for my van but its from another van that was running a bit of a silly map on it. the injector pump from a BMW 6cyl 3L M57 engine and the fuel pressure sensor from it. our vans are quite fun when they do 220bhp. sadly the guy who had it crashed it but i came in with the spanners before the insurance people took it hahaha it was never going back on the road again.

Last edited by JohnDragonMan (2024-10-09 22:55:41)

Eddie Honda · 2024-10-10 04:06:19

JohnDragonMan wrote:

im quite upset as my very local pick and pull scrap yard has closed down recently. yes i practically lived there.

Never been there, but I assume you mean Albert Looms? I can understand your upset.

JohnDragonMan · 2024-10-11 00:36:56

yeah.. thats the one. i do work at another scrap yard in Derby but all i do at it now is throw tyres into a bailing machine. boss and i had a falling out over pay. i was doing welding work and and loads of repair work while just sat on very near minimum wage. so ive been made to do one of the worst jobs in the yard haha. minimum of 2 people at a time working the bailer but often i am on my own on it sigh. 9 years at a company and still on very close to minimum wage just a few pence above. its a good job i work 2 jobs! ive actually been off work for the past 4 days with a bad back so be interesting to see if i have a job to go back to. not really fused as i can get drier more light work elsewhere for minimum wage. you get soaked bailing tyres.

it was always the dream to get into loomes scrap yard. i did try to get into Sims once but again thats just been sold to someone else!

Last edited by JohnDragonMan (2024-10-11 00:37:59)

Joshwaa · 2024-10-13 08:15:49

Still not had time to have a look at it again

I'm having a look and play tonight hopefully come to a conclusion and start (no pun intended)....making tracks on the next steps

The closest scrap yard I have is upullit but it's a free for all there now people just cut everything out their way. I've checked there stock online and there isn't any in stock either but there was an immaculate one there a few month ago....I got a brand new tow bar off it for £15!

Joshwaa · 2024-10-16 22:44:02

Just to keep you all in loop and anyone else that stumbles across this

Just to recap

Interia switch checked, removed, bypassed confident it's not this
12v at fuel relay
12v at glow plug relay
12v at maf sensor
12v at all fuses - removed cleaned and put back in
Grounds cleaned off
Tried earth cable from ecu to battery
Removed ecu - checked pins
Ignition switch bypassed (hot wired) with keys in

NOT got 12v at ecu when ingtion is at position 2!

Now I presume 3 things, there is a break in the power cable

Or

Immobiliser isn't allowing it to power up? (I'll attach the photo of the immobiliser light when I'm next there

The van is still turning over as strong as ever

It's going to a mechanic tomorrow hopefully.

Joshwaa · 2024-10-16 22:48:28

[url=https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/forum/img/members/1767/Screenshot_20241013_144329_Drive.jpeg]

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Joshwaa · 2024-10-16 22:50:39

RegW · 2024-10-17 00:26:09

Good luck getting it sorted out and let us know what happens

Joshwaa · 2024-10-18 19:35:34

big_smile . smile smile cool

So

Took it to a lad today and within an hour it's running again!

Basically the ecu wasn't getting 12v, I knew this but he cut the right cable in the right place and added a direct 12v feed in there right back at the fuse box end

When fuses were removed there was still a 12v going through the places that shouldn't

He's said that the fuseboard is bad and needs a new one or a clean up and go from there.

So again thanks everyone for the help all massively appreciated.

I'll let you know how i get on when changing the fuse board

RegW · 2024-10-18 22:38:22

Good news you're up and running again.
Considering these vans are at least 16 years old, I can well imagine contacts and connectors getting oxidised
especially in the engine bay.

That's something else for my list of stuff to check.

Last edited by RegW (2024-10-18 22:41:15)

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#26 2024-10-08 12:58:25

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#27 2024-10-08 16:45:35

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#28 2024-10-08 17:59:10

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#29 2024-10-08 19:34:09

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#30 2024-10-08 19:39:14

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#31 2024-10-08 23:37:11

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#32 2024-10-09 07:20:13

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#33 2024-10-09 22:46:45

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#34 2024-10-10 04:06:19

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#35 2024-10-11 00:36:56

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#36 2024-10-13 08:15:49

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#37 2024-10-16 22:44:02

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#38 2024-10-16 22:48:28

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#39 2024-10-16 22:50:39

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#40 2024-10-17 00:26:09

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#41 2024-10-18 19:35:34

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

#42 2024-10-18 22:38:22

Re: 2005 citroen dispatch 2.0hdi cranking - won't start - SOLVED

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