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#1 2019-01-18 23:36:40

Ant
Member
Registered: 2019-01-18
Posts: 4

Cam belt change ruined performance

Hi guys, My 05 Expert with 84k on the clock started on the button and ran like a dream until I drove it back from the garage that replaced the cam belt. Now it's difficult to start, is down on performance and sounds crap. I want to undo the work the garage did and follow proper Peugeot workshop rules before reinstalling cam belt. Can anybody put me out of my misery?

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#2 2019-01-19 00:55:02

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 1,207

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

Depends as not all engines are the same but most if a cam belt is replaced but one tooth out your motor will drive and sound like shit. Take it back and kick up hell. If they dick you about get legal on them

Last edited by Casper (2019-01-19 00:55:30)

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#3 2019-01-19 02:03:03

Ant
Member
Registered: 2019-01-18
Posts: 4

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

Thanks Casper, I had a feeling that might be the case, I checked the process in a workshop manual before I booked it in and the crankshaft, injector pump and camshaft sprocket have to be locked in place with the motor at TDC before the old belt comes off, my guess is the grease monkey that did the work just used chalk marks or tipex. The belt tension has to be measured correctly as well, I doubt that happened. I'm actually quite pissed off about it. I'll take your advice though and have a word with them but I'll be taking it to a specialist to get corrected. If it turns out our worst fears are right then I'll get them to foot the bill. Thanks again. Ant

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#4 2019-01-19 21:50:09

kenbw2
Member
From: Bradford/Preston/Anywhere
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 236

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

Ugh, if there's one thing you don't want to balls up, it's the timing belt. Like you say, if it's not timed up properly, it's not gonna run right.

I've personally given up trying to get garages to make good their mistakes, they always claim innocence and what can you do to force them? I'd just go somewhere else and get it done properly. Should be cheaper since you're not buying a new belt, water pump etc.


1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#5 2019-01-19 23:35:58

Ant
Member
Registered: 2019-01-18
Posts: 4

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

Agreed. the cost of the parts pales into insignificance compared to a job well done.
  The van still runs and my project is still on, but I'm gonna have to get this issue looked into even if I have to do it myself Lol. The PSA version of the Espace makes a damn good base for a camper.
I'll probably just go direct to Peugeot to get the timing sorted out and yes that could be pricey, but once done I should have a trusty pre Euro spec motor to get me about. They handle beautifully.

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#6 2019-01-20 14:59:35

steve the grease
Member
Registered: 2018-05-20
Posts: 23

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

On the older XUD engines you just locked up the pulleys and crank. If the head is skimmed the timing ends up retarded . On the later engines there are floating pulleys, where the cam and pump are locked , but the pulleys float on the cam or pump  being fixed by locking up 3 bolts when the tension is correct. That way  the timing can be perfect rather than to the nearest tooth.  However it's also very easy for an incompetant mechanic to completely fu.... make a mess of it. Its important that the belt is fitted to the pulleys  so that the bolt isin the middle of the adjustment zone , rather than at the end. Quite difficult to explain actually , easier to see whilst you are doing it . For sure either the pump or cam timing is retarded. So do you take it back, or find someone else to do it properly?

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#7 2019-01-21 18:53:25

Ant
Member
Registered: 2019-01-18
Posts: 4

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

Hi Steve, thanks for your reply. Here's the story so far, and as far as I know it's the DW8 engine, rated at 69bhp.

I took it to a vehicle dismantlers who specialise in french vehicles but also have a service workshop. I was looking for a replacement drivers seat and had the good fortune to find one for £20. Incidentally the the seat bolt holes on my '05 match those on the '07 models onwards, so food for thought just in case anyone's interested. But back to the issue at hand, while I was there I explained the cam belt issue and before I could finish my sentence the chap behind the counter pretty much went on to explain what you mentioned in your post. I asked whether there was a chance the valves could be just clipping the pistons owing to the noise and characteristics my engine now displays, it's very metallic sounding and is not dependant on throttle position, in other words the faster the engine spins the louder and quicker the clack, and it gets louder the warmer the engine gets. He said there was a slight chance. Owing to the massive compression ratio things get pretty close during the combustion cycle. It goes back to them on Friday this week for them to give me an assessment and possibly get it all lined up. But to be really happy I'd want the cylinder head off for a closer look, if it turns out the original mechanic ballsed up the original belt change to the extent he's caused actuall damage then I'll be sending them the bill, or going through the courts. Most people would wonder why I should want to go through all that trouble with an old van but trust me when I say this particular van drives like a beauty. It shows no evidence of having ever been in a body shop and drives straight as a die. I value that, big time. It's also a lovely shade of pale yellow. Nice.

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#8 2019-01-21 22:40:50

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 231

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

I agree  regarding it being worth investing time, effort and money in an older vehicle... sometimes.  But also admit to it not being the case for me on a number of occasions in the past.

Like you though, my current van could be described by some as past its best before date but I would still spend what I paid for it to give it another few years.  Its perfect for my usage, drives better than many saloons, and is totally rust free.  I am considering an expensive bill to get the glow plugs replaced.  Two garages tried and couldn't get them out.  It's going to need the engine dropped.  After considering a replacement, newer van, I have decided to stick with this one and have it done.

Stories like yours though make me fear using garages.  Hope your turns out ok.

Last edited by OAT (2019-01-21 22:43:47)

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#9 2019-01-21 23:48:49

kenbw2
Member
From: Bradford/Preston/Anywhere
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 236

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

OAT wrote:

I am considering an expensive bill to get the glow plugs replaced.  Two garages tried and couldn't get them out.  It's going to need the engine dropped.

Wait, what? I did mine myself. Took me an hour or two, and definitely didn't need the engine dropping!

Yours is the XUD9, yes? Access to a couple of them is a right arse especially near the fuel pump, but definitely doable. Just keep your spare glow plug nuts, you'll probably drop a couple.


1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#10 2019-01-21 23:57:27

kenbw2
Member
From: Bradford/Preston/Anywhere
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 236

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

Ant wrote:

Incidentally the the seat bolt holes on my '05 match those on the '07 models onwards, so food for thought just in case anyone's interested.

Hey that's good to know. I gather the people carriers 807 and C8 ones fit too, probably no coincidence.

Ant wrote:

Most people would wonder why I should want to go through all that trouble with an old van but trust me when I say this particular van drives like a beauty.

Most would, yes. But for some unfathomable reason they'd decide spending less than £500 to be a waste, and then go spend several thousand on a new one! Old vehicles are scrapped long before they have to be unfortunately.

Ant wrote:

It's also a lovely shade of pale yellow. Nice.

Hey, yours is the one out of the owner's handbook!

20190121-225423.jpg


1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#11 2019-01-22 01:15:48

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 465

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

Just by what's being said........ Sounds like it's a timing issue (Retarded)

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#12 2019-01-22 15:52:00

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 231

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

kenbw2 wrote:
OAT wrote:

I am considering an expensive bill to get the glow plugs replaced.  Two garages tried and couldn't get them out.  It's going to need the engine dropped.

Wait, what? I did mine myself. Took me an hour or two, and definitely didn't need the engine dropping!

Yours is the XUD9, yes? Access to a couple of them is a right arse especially near the fuel pump, but definitely doable. Just keep your spare glow plug nuts, you'll probably drop a couple.

A few people have said similar.  But one of the garages was not exactly a back street place and did specialise in diesels.  They got two out but couldn't get the other two.  When they said it needed the engine dropped and would be expensive I said go ahead.  They then said that they feared wrecking the head in getting them out and that a replacement head may be required.  Again I suggested they did it but they made it clear they didn't want to.   We were talking potentially around £1,000!

Would love to have a go myself but have serious mobility problems.  After hardly using a garage in over 50yrs, I am now totally in their unreliable and expensive hands.

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#13 2019-01-23 01:47:47

kenbw2
Member
From: Bradford/Preston/Anywhere
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 236

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

OAT wrote:

We were talking potentially around £1,000!

Would love to have a go myself but have serious mobility problems.  After hardly using a garage in over 50yrs, I am now totally in their unreliable and expensive hands.

I get they're saying there's a chance they can strip the threads or snapping the plugs, meaning new head. I was terrified of doing that when I changed mine. But I'd have thought a professional would manage it with some heat and WD40. The one I can't understand though is why they're wanting to drop the engine. It wouldn't help with access, so I can't see why they even brought it up.

If it's not too late I'd say get a second opinion before spending £100s taking the engine out. In fact, even give Citroen a go, see if they'll do it for cheaper.

My brother says he'll do them for £500  wink

Last edited by kenbw2 (2019-01-23 01:53:07)


1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#14 2019-01-23 02:35:18

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 465

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

I've changed the glow plugs twice in 10 years on the 306 (Early DW8) and the worst part of the job is access on it as well........ With the engine sitting so far under the scuttle on the van I can see where your coming from ............. But kenbw2 is correct dropping the engine will only really open up a little more sholder space but not really give greater access to the job in hand.................... it's all really very touchy feely and skint knuckles..........

I agree this is one time take it too Citroen and have a chat get a {technician} mechanic involved............hopefully they'll have some old school guy that worked on the 806/ synergee/ulysee as i'm sure a bunch of them needed glow plugs over the years and they've gleened a few in house/brand procedures..............

Whats the worst they can say................................... Fu**  o** !!

Last edited by vaz2121 (2019-01-23 02:36:48)

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#15 2019-01-24 12:52:47

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 231

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

Don't know if the turbo makes access any worse but they definitely didn't fancy it.

Another reason I haven't had it done is I have needed the van for regular travel between the Borders and Yorkshire.  As soon as settled back in Yorkshire I will get some quotes.

Sorry to deviate your topic Ant, How's you getting on with yours?

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#16 2019-01-25 12:58:23

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 465

Re: Cam belt change ruined performance

OAT wrote:

Don't know if the turbo makes access any worse but they definitely didn't fancy it.

Another reason I haven't had it done is I have needed the van for regular travel between the Borders and Yorkshire.  As soon as settled back in Yorkshire I will get some quotes.

Sorry to deviate your topic Ant, How's you getting on with yours?

Turbo....... Yours is fitted with an XUD9 then..... Shouldn't think it would make much odds............ I just got my van back after being away for a good few weeks over christmas ... I didn't push hard for its return but I do feel like I missed an opportunity.......... after clutch was done I aquired an oil leak that was never there before............. somthing was obviously disturbed ...They had inlet manifold and rocker cover off etc and fitted a bunch of new gaskets ... I should have got glow plugs done .... Being in there anyway

I think kenbw2 is yer man on an XUD9 in one of these {806,Ulysee ..........}



........ Sorry Ant ..... Hijack etc .........

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