Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

Tiree · 2019-02-13 18:53:53

Evenin!

In recent weeks, something is making a whirring noise in the engine compartment.

This increases and decreases with the engine revs.

I'm guessing this is something off the ancillaries belt - and looking at the bottom of this page and in the knowledge that I don't have aircon - I'm thinking it's likely to be either the alternator or the power steering pump.

The alternator was an exchange unit fitted just a few years ago so I'm hopeful it's not that ...

By a completely simplistic process of elimination and by a non-mechanic at that - my guess goes at PS pump.

Anyone any thoughts / knowledge on this sort of thing? Barking up wrong tree? Anything else it could be?

As ever a long trip looms and would like to get sorted asap so maybe I just head for the garage.

Any thoughts v welcome!!

steve the grease · 2019-02-13 22:44:50

Do this at your own risk! Careful! ( but it works.)
Get a length of hosepipe .
Place one end in or near your ear.
Move the other end close to each pulley or idler in the axuxiliary belt set up, with the engine running . As the sound of the other idlers is isolated , the loud whirring associated with a worn pulley or idler bearing is easy to identify.
Certainly the 1.9 has a small idler near the crank , that is about 30mm diameter , as the crank pulley is 4 or 5 " diameter , it must rotate at several times the engine speed, it could easily be rotating at 10,000 rpm if the engine is doing 3 or 4k rpm's, is it any wonder they whirr after 10 years or more......

Last edited by steve the grease (2019-02-13 22:51:41)

vaz2121 · 2019-02-13 22:54:23

If it's the power steering pump it would normally make the whirring noise when steering wheel had some sort of input irrespective of speed or engine revs ( when on tick over turn steering wheel left/right and it'll whir/girn if low on fluid)............... check fluid (ATF is the same as power steering fluid) and surrounding pipes for leakage.......

But more likely what you need to do is get the longest Screwdriver you can or long metal rod and put a rag around end to mimic a handle (12"plus) and with engine running and this is where you obviously need to be careful of spinning belts and bits...With engine running ..........Put one end on P/S pump and the handle to your ear and use it as a stethoscope to hear any anomalies or on other parts for same purpose (alternator, water pump, idler/tension pulleys for fan belt etc) you can even use this tactick on side of engine for assessment to pinpoint area of untoward noise within or just buy a mechanics stethoscope....

Last edited by vaz2121 (2019-02-13 23:54:57)

vaz2121 · 2019-02-13 22:58:35

Sorry I was answering at same time as steve the grease.................... What he said works for me!

kenbw2 · 2019-02-14 00:19:50

I had one like that, although it disappeared at higher revs. Turned out to be the idler pulley, the plastic cover came off and exposed the bearings.

Easy fix, but a little scary

Tiree · 2019-02-14 10:48:44

Thanks for the thoughts folks smile

Love all the ideas for pinpointing the source - inspired me to look into it more and I like this guy's method [an extension of yours Vaz]:

Will see if I can give this a try at lunchtime today.

I do feel like this started quite suddenly so wondering if it could be as simple as kenbw2's situation.

We shall see .......

vaz2121 · 2019-02-14 23:35:48

I really quite like that ..... it's giving me ideas.... (dangerous) having once used one of my ex-wifes knitting needles and some windscreen washer tube (I suffered for that theivage of needle)..... A knitting needle through the cap of an empty 4 - 6 pint milk container (or the plastic coke bottle I was going to use as a funnel) with the back side cut of it or to be really posh said needle inscreen tube a T piece and two more bits of screen tube for your ears ........(just like the real thing then)............

So lets not forget what I was really going to ask

How did the prognosis go..... have you found culprit ?

Tiree · 2019-02-15 00:50:48

Well ...

I had a bit of rebar kicking about which is pretty much walking stick shaped.

It actually worked really well without any sort of megaphone extension. It's long, thin and sturdy so just held the walking-stick-handle end to my ear and poked the other end onto the various pulleys.

The only pulley that stood [sonically] out was #78 below - the roller tensioner.

(73) Crankshaft pulley .

(74) Dynamic tensioner roller .

(75) Power steering pump .

(76) Alternator .

(77) Stabiliser roller .

(78) Roller tensioner (The belt fitting tension is adjusted by means of a cam ring) .

The feedback from it was prob 50% louder than anything else and considerably higher pitched. Everything else was much of a muchness.

I then spent about half an hour prodding the rebar into various other parts of the engine just for fun. Amazing what you can pick up!

The astute amongst you might remember that before Xmas I had a problem with my battery light coming on faintly. Turned out to be a v simple wiring issue but I do wonder if the garage maybe adjusted this tensioner to make sure the belt was sufficiently tight when they were troubleshooting that.

Which may or may not account for the increased noise [opinions welcome!].

There's definitely more whirr / drone / whine [not like turbo whistle tho - def mechanical] from the engine bay than before .... and it does follow revs.

I'm going to monitor it for the next week and will maybe book in for a check at the garage ... will keep you posted.

Thanks again!

vaz2121 · 2019-02-15 04:28:36

I've never had the need to remove or tighten the belt on the van... Although on the 306 ive replaced two spring loaded tensioners .......
The van doesn't have A/C So I think manual adjustment

Your diagram and #78 Shows indeed that is a manual tension pulley and you may be correct that Garage put an extra tight tweek in it or maybe it's just had its time... if youv'e booked it in at least your not going in blind and it's always helpfull to give a ball park heads up ............

Tiree · 2019-05-31 22:12:10

Tiree wrote:

Well ...
https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/asse … bk15zc.gif
(73) Crankshaft pulley .
(74) Dynamic tensioner roller .
(75) Power steering pump .
(76) Alternator .
(77) Stabiliser roller .
(78) Roller tensioner (The belt fitting tension is adjusted by means of a cam ring) .

Meant to explain how this went ages ago - sorry - but for the record .. the garage called it on #74 and #78 .. replaced both and all is well!

I'm at 184k miles so can't complain. They replaced the belt as well and total cost was around £100

T

mmwain · 2020-12-16 19:03:00

I did the listening thing using some ratchet extensions and 74 was more rumbly than the others (note it sounds rumbly through the extensions, not the high pitched whine you hear otherwise). This isn't the most sure fire way though as all sorts of rumbles can propagate through engines in all sorts of strange ways. To be sure, take a photo of the belt routing, then put a 16mm socket on a big bar and turn the tensioner (74) rearwards from the top, fwds from below to take the tension off. Either put a pin through the locking hole next to the tension checking marks, or just slip the belt off. Take supreme care not to get your fingers between the slackened belt and a pulley - if the socket slips off the tensioner and it traps a finger under the belt you can expect extreme pain and a really difficult job getting the tension back off with one hand, particularly if you just dropped the socket! Start the engine and hopefully your noise has gone, thus confirming that the problem is in this system. Stop the engine and check all the pulleys, it should be quite obvious which one has worn bearings if it's noisy enough to hear when driving. On mine, and probably most, it was the tensioner pulley which had a couple of mm play in it. Check all the others in case there is more than one fault. Remember that on pumps/alternators it could be something inside them that is causing the noise rather than the bearing. These may be difficult to turn by hand so try using the belt. Once diagnosed you can pop the belt back on to go down to the motor factors for whatever you need.
Pretty much the worst outcome of ignoring this fault is that it wears to the point where a pulley falls off, the belt will follow it and then you will have really heavy steering, no aircon and your battery will stop charging. But it's quite a big battery, so you should get home! Wind the windows down to provide alternative cooling rather than putting the electric fan on - you will need cooling as you'll be sweating from hauling the steering wheel round at every bend!

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#1 2019-02-13 18:53:53

Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#2 2019-02-13 22:44:50

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#3 2019-02-13 22:54:23

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#4 2019-02-13 22:58:35

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#5 2019-02-14 00:19:50

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#6 2019-02-14 10:48:44

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#7 2019-02-14 23:35:48

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#8 2019-02-15 00:50:48

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#9 2019-02-15 04:28:36

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#10 2019-05-31 22:12:10

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

#11 2020-12-16 19:03:00

Re: Ancillaries Belt Whirring Noise

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