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#1 2019-07-01 21:28:05

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 316

No anti roll bar MOT fail!

My 98 van MOTed for the last four years has just failed for no anti roll bar.  Never had one since I had it.  Apparently It's a new requirement since May.

Anyone know if the sub frame needs removing to replace?

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#2 2019-07-01 21:45:32

kenbw2
Member
From: Bradford/Preston/Anywhere
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 376

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

My white one never had one, I'd be surprised if they retrospectively require one.

I can confirm from your VIN (I took a picture when we were off up to Scotland) that yours never had one at manufacture

AunZkWi.png

My blue one for comparison:

o4xmENI.png

Better off without one as far as I'm concerned. Not like we're racing them.

Last edited by kenbw2 (2019-07-01 21:47:08)


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#3 2019-07-01 21:57:15

kenbw2
Member
From: Bradford/Preston/Anywhere
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 376

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

Can't see anything here about changes to anti roll bars: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati … m-may-2018

Hope this isn't Diesel Dave


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#4 2019-07-01 22:38:08

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 316

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

Cheers Ken.  No not DD, a local MOT garage.

They did say that they were a bit confused and needed to look into it though.  They are ringing me back tomorrow.

Who else has, or hasn't anti roll bars?

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#5 2019-07-02 04:14:06

cliffo
Member
Registered: 2017-08-04
Posts: 71

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

No ARB on my 98 Scudo, either.

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#6 2019-07-02 13:35:03

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 316

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

kenbw2 wrote:

Can't see anything here about changes to anti roll bars: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati … m-may-2018

It's this bit :-

5.3.3 Suspension arms, rods, struts, sub-frames, anti-roll bars etc.

Defect   -    Category
A suspension component:

insecurely attached to chassis or axle - Major

missing, likely to become detached or directional stability impaired - Dangerous

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/ … tion_5.3.3

Last edited by OAT (2019-07-02 13:47:56)

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#7 2019-07-02 16:38:50

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 573

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

OAT wrote:

Who else has, or hasn't anti roll bars?

My van which is 2005 face lift doesn't appear to have an antirollbar on the front either  from factory

I wonder is it only the heavier rated vans or Turbo versions that got anti roll bar from the Factory...........

I've had this scenario before where my late model carb fed Lada 4x4 was never fitted with a Catalytic converter and was not a requirement on that vehicle

Years after purchace and several MOT's later an MOT mans sidekick all but accused me of trying to fiddle past the test......... Never got an apology from him (just excuses of his Superior knowledge) But I did from MOT man after he'd checked vin number out.........

P.S. Allthough it's a Nov 93  (60's tech) ............ I about 10 yrs ago asked for a set of points and a condenser at local motor factors........... The person serving me asked what? and a higher ranking Parts man wanted to know if I was sure about my request   big_smile

Last edited by vaz2121 (2019-07-02 16:39:32)

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#8 2019-07-02 19:37:35

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 316

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

vaz212 wrote:

I wonder is it only the heavier rated vans or Turbo versions that got anti roll bar from the Factory...........

You would think so but the parts list from my 1905 TD VIN no, posted by ken, don't list one.  Yet it lists the mount!

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#9 2019-07-02 21:13:28

kenbw2
Member
From: Bradford/Preston/Anywhere
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 376

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

OAT wrote:
kenbw2 wrote:

Can't see anything here about changes to anti roll bars: https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati … m-may-2018

It's this bit :-

5.3.3 Suspension arms, rods, struts, sub-frames, anti-roll bars etc.

Defect   -    Category
A suspension component:

insecurely attached to chassis or axle - Major

missing, likely to become detached or directional stability impaired - Dangerous

https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/ … tion_5.3.3

Yea I saw that, but it's missing in the same way as my DPF is missing. As far as I can tell that rule was there for ages, and it's not in the May update list.


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#10 2019-07-02 22:12:46

steve the grease
Member
Registered: 2018-05-20
Posts: 35

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

Citroen 2cv's  don't have anti roll bars, they go round corners on their door handles as we all know.  The heavier Ami ( same engine + chassis) does have an ARB it's a heavier car it rolls more violently. Likewise Citroen Saxo's , the little 950's and 1100's don't have them  The heavier diesels and sporty petrols do have one.  When a car rolls the weight is transferred onto the outer wheels whilst the inner wheel is nearly off the ground.... The more weight on the wheel the more the side slip and so the more understeer. The anti roll bar keeps both wheels in  more even contact  with the road and therefore understeer is reduced.. Presumably the vehicle in question is a1.9 rather than any of the more powerful options so the vehicle maker doesn't consider understeer to be an issue. If the manufacturer doesn't fit one then the MOT tester has just overstepped himself.

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#11 2019-07-03 00:14:13

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 316

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

The thing that gets me is that the mounts are there.  And they are also on the parts list for my VIN.

I can understand the tester seeing the mounts and assuming the bar was missing.  If I didn't have a week left on old mot, they couldn't have even let me drive away.

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#12 2019-07-04 11:56:38

ruston
Member
Registered: 2017-01-31
Posts: 14

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

My 2006 HDI has an anti roll bar, perhaps it is just the non tubo versions that don't?

Pete.

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#13 2019-07-04 17:40:56

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 316

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

ruston wrote:

My 2006 HDI has an anti roll bar, perhaps it is just the non tubo versions that don't?

Pete.

Would make sense but mine is TD.

After 2 days of calls between the tester, myself, VOSA and a local Peugeot dealer, they are now going to pass it.

Apparently...

According to Peugeot approx 50% were fitted with anti roll bars's.  According to my VIN, mine wasn't.

VOSA told the tester to fail it as the brackets indicated an arb had been removed.

Peugeot advised that the mounting brackets were fitted as their captive bolts were used to hold another component (?)

VOSA said in that case it could be passed.

Tester will pass and append a reference to his discussion with VOSA.

Saved me at least £300 I suspect.  smile

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#14 2019-07-04 18:09:57

Ricko
Member
From: SW Lancs
Registered: 2017-01-18
Posts: 220

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

OAT wrote:
ruston wrote:

My 2006 HDI has an anti roll bar, perhaps it is just the non tubo versions that don't?

Pete.

Would make sense but mine is TD.

After 2 days of calls between the tester, myself, VOSA and a local Peugeot dealer, they are now going to pass it.

Apparently...

According to Peugeot approx 50% were fitted with anti roll bars's.  According to my VIN, mine wasn't.

VOSA told the tester to fail it as the brackets indicated an arb had been removed.

Peugeot advised that the mounting brackets were fitted as their captive bolts were used to hold another component (?)

VOSA said in that case it could be passed.

Tester will pass and append a reference to his discussion with VOSA.

Saved me at least £300 I suspect.  smile

Good result


2004 Citroen Dispatch 2.0 Hdi

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#15 2019-07-04 22:58:10

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 573

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

Ricko wrote:

Good result

I agree.....A good and correct result.........

But I also think it F...... ridiculous that a vehicle that leaves the factory several years ago and passes previous M.O.T.'s without this beiing an issue should become one........

Fair do's if vehicle had been mucked about with and in fairness to the tester to investigate

But VOSA  to decree without inspection "carte blanche" your being treated as Guilty until YOU prove your innocence..........




P.S. As an aside too this I wonder how many highly jacked up and fairly heavily modified 4X4's their are ignorantly and happily trotting about with their ARB's having been removed ............Years ago

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#16 2019-07-05 00:18:54

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 316

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

It was indeed strange how after the tester contacted VOSA expecting a clear and definitive answer, it became a case of negotiation.

I thought giving VOSA the VIN would allow them to define exactly what parts were originally fitted.

The tester said it was only the second time he had to contact VOSA for clarification.  The other time only a week or so back regarding a bike MOT.  That was a strange one too.

The bikes indicators were permanently on except when indicating when they flashed.  After indicating they stayed on.

The tester failed it, rightly recognising the danger and assuming it must be wrong.  The owner objected saying it had always been like that.  When VOSA considered it they concluded that the legislation only demanded they flash, it doesn't specify their non indicating state and the bike should pass.

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#17 2019-07-05 15:43:24

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 573

Re: No anti roll bar MOT fail!

OAT wrote:

When VOSA considered it they concluded that the legislation only demanded they flash, it doesn't specify their non indicating state and the bike should pass.

I've never heard of that type of indicator lights before ................... I wonder if it was a grey ish import and they were some kind of running light....................

I got an advisory on my bike many moons ago for being too loud  ............ but since then No probs and its now running the aftermarket exhaust can without baffles...........

I also not that long ago it seems had an Opel Astra 1600ie.......... I first thought Southern Ireland but turned out too have been a South African import that had No catylitic convertor, or airbags but did have A/C and when MOTing I had to present the SVA import papers to get exemption from the construction & use regs as well as the euro regs we've just discussed

Last edited by vaz2121 (2019-07-05 15:45:32)

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