Bang :(

k_wyndham_t · 2019-07-25 14:41:07

So decided to take the camper to work today as more economical than my car.
Going up M5 fine, whizzing past everyone in the looser lanes, then went to pull off as I slowed down lots of banging/knocking then no power, limped to lay by.
So never got hot, not got any metal in the oil and block OK (no rods sticking out).
So engine runs with loud knock/thumping noise no smoke but cuts out unless revved, has very little power.
Engine is a 2.0 HDi 16V
So I thought was big ends gone but RAC man said he thought it was from back of engine and maybe turbo/exhaust cracked broken as there seemed to be some exhaust gasses escaping.
What are peoples thoughts?

k_wyndham_t · 2019-07-30 08:46:38

Update, the RAC were wrong there is a very small leak from a weld on the down-pipe by the cat but its not the issue needless to say.

Kind of hoped the shaking and banging was the harmonic balancer on the crank pulley as I gather these are quite a common failure but although it does have a bit of rusty dust on it there is no noticeable play and and engine still shakes/bangs when started without the serpent belt, I gather usually it would stop if pulley not under load if was the fault (also would not explain the power loss if this was issue)

So next thing is big ends, so I have removed inter-cooler pipe and pump off the sump and tonight will remove sump itself and see what I can find.

Last edited by k_wyndham_t (2019-07-30 08:47:29)

kenbw2 · 2019-07-30 13:58:41

Man that sucks, well done for investigating so much. I don't know much about the 2.0 HDi so can't offer much in the way of help.

Keep us updated, yours looks like a nice van so I hope it lives on.

vaz2121 · 2019-07-30 21:00:35

Is this a timing belt issue as belts normaly let go on the over run in that split second change from power on to off..........
Obviously its not broken as you've had it running again............. but lost a couple teeth or has it been slack just enough for it to jump out of kilter...........

Just a thought

Stu-D · 2019-07-30 22:22:30

Sorry to hear bud sad - In my experience when a bottom end goes you don't really hear it on idle when its just the start of the issue and usually engine needs to be between say 1500-2500k revs, although may be different on these engine, I've also seen injector failure cause a similar issue - maybe worth a look?

k_wyndham_t · 2019-07-31 11:33:21

Well the sump is off, not definite but I can feel movement in number 4 big end and not in 2 or 3 which is looking bad for that one, cannot check number 1 till the oil pump comes off.

Doesnt seam like a lot of movement though, but enough so they need to get done before sump goes back on.

k_wyndham_t · 2019-07-31 11:35:27

vaz2121 wrote:

Is this a timing belt issue as belts normaly let go on the over run in that split second change from power on to off..........
Obviously its not broken as you've had it running again............. but lost a couple teeth or has it been slack just enough for it to jump out of kilter...........
Just a thought

It is at that point what ever was wrong showed itself, I hope not as was done less than 2 years ago and very few miles but I will pop the covers off and check. If its jumped more than one tooth though my guessing is engine will be scrap.

k_wyndham_t · 2019-07-31 11:37:51

Stu-D wrote:

Sorry to hear bud - In my experience when a bottom end goes you don't really hear it on idle when its just the start of the issue and usually engine needs to be between say 1500-2500k revs, although may be different on these engine, I've also seen injector failure cause a similar issue - maybe worth a look?

It gets a lot worse if you try and rev it, so I still think big end especially with the number 4 having a bit of play now sump is off.
I think injectors are OK although I do get a bit of an intermittent leak on number 2 injector but only occasionally and only when cold.

k_wyndham_t · 2019-08-01 19:55:44

So an update, after turning over the engine full rotation all I can detect is a slight end float movement not big ends so I have reassembled bottom end.
I have put new oil in and filter and left the inter cooler pipe off and also not put serpentine belt on yet, started her up, now doesn't smoke at all but theres what sounds like a much louder "banging" from the front end but now does sound more like an open manifold where before it didn't.
Could this be a completely stuck open EGR and with all the pipes it didn't sound so loud, or could the turbo blown in a way that allows exhaust into the inlet?

Last edited by k_wyndham_t (2019-08-01 19:56:26)

k_wyndham_t · 2019-08-09 09:12:49

So I blanked off the EGR and I am still getting the banging and fumes coming back out the inlet under preasure, this is bad news.
It did occur to me that it sounds like one bang per cycle so that would indicate its only fumes from one cylinder coming out which implies the other 3 are OK, but its cylinder related.
I'm guessing its going to be broken/stuck/bent valve.

What is the best way to do a compression check on these engines?

ruston · 2019-08-09 20:31:30

If it had dodgy valves that weren't seating then it would be missfiring badly. Easiest way to test compressions is to rotate the crankshaft with a socket etc and note where it comes onto compression with each cylinder, (put two Tippex marks on the pulley and the timing cover) and if one is 'iffy' then you will soon notice as it will turn freely in that spot.

Pete.

OAT · 2019-08-09 23:43:11

Sorry to have nothing of use to offer k. But thanks for the updates. Interesting but scarey.

Hope you get it sorted.

vaz2121 · 2019-08-10 05:02:34

k_wyndham_t wrote:

It is at that point what ever was wrong showed itself, I hope not as was done less than 2 years ago and very few miles but I will pop the covers off and check. If its jumped more than one tooth though my guessing is engine will be scrap.

I a couple of years ago now had a belt let go while doing something like 20mph and approching a junction........
That belt had been changed a few years earlier also and had only covered about 25 or 30,000 mls and as I was told then while spitting blood that "Sh** happens"
On stripping down it seems the water pump hadn't been changed and I was the lucky one that it had apparently siezed with and done the good deed.........
That engine was deemed as Toast and cheaper to replace

k_wyndham_t · 2019-08-13 08:34:16

So update for this weekend, I have done a compression check, it is the same on all cylinders so not a burnt or holed valve (or piston), but does seam low for a diesel, its about right for a petrol car but would think a typical diesel would be about double.

I think I will have to check the timing, I doubt very much the belt has jumped as nearly new and I have taken the covers off and its at correct tension and all looks good, but maybe a woodruff key has broken and a pulley has moved or something similar as something is going on to make the exhaust exit the inlet.

Do I gather to do the timing there are two locating pins used, one in the cam pulley at about 7 0'clock and the one in the flywheel is through a hole behind the starter motor which has to come off to access?

vaz2121 · 2019-08-13 16:28:54

I'm at a loss right now as to the exact locking procedure on a DW8 or an HDI............ But yes for one of These (HDI) IIRC when my belts were that sounds about right.......... as an HDI's pump dosn't require timing like a DW8's (Like my 2 are)

Not wishing to tell my Granny how to suck eggs........ I'm going to assume if you thought all the cylinders were to be a tad Low you gave each a squirt of oil and did it wet test reading as well to see if any significant change in numbers

k_wyndham_t · 2019-08-14 16:03:12

vaz2121 wrote:

I'm at a loss right now as to the exact locking procedure on a DW8 or an HDI............ But yes for one of These (HDI) IIRC when my belts were that sounds about right.......... as an HDI's pump dosn't require timing like a DW8's (Like my 2 are)
Not wishing to tell my Granny how to suck eggs........ I'm going to assume if you thought all the cylinders were to be a tad Low you gave each a squirt of oil and did it wet test reading as well to see if any significant change in numbers

To be fair I didnt see the point as the engine "went" suddenly and wetting the bore only usually helps to indicate when there's bore wear.

My current thinking is the crank pulley woodruff key.

I bought an E7 today just as a backup plan, it needs the coolant system flushing or at most a rad and TBH is actually in better condition than my van, so if the engine is pooched I will move all the camper stuff over to the taxi.

k_wyndham_t · 2019-08-17 17:15:21

So an update, so does this picture look like TDC, i have not yet taken off starter and tried to lock the crank yet but this was the position of the crank pulley after getting the engine turned so I could lock the camshaft.

20190817_170218 by k_wyndham_t, on Flickr

Tell me if I am wrong but the woodruff key is at TDC on the crank and as the line of the sump is not at 90 degrees to this the engine is not at TDC at the moment?

k_wyndham_t · 2019-08-19 09:03:23

vaz2121 wrote:

Is this a timing belt issue as belts normaly let go on the over run in that split second change from power on to off..........
Obviously its not broken as you've had it running again............. but lost a couple teeth or has it been slack just enough for it to jump out of kilter...........
Just a thought

So as suspected from my post/pic above the cam timing was wrong, so vaz2121 got it right.

How the hell it jumped as the belt is intact, almost new and wasn't loose who knows, but it was out by two teeth on the crank sproket that would have equated to 4 teeth on the cam sprocket but amazingly, now re-timed it has proper compression, and I have briefly run it and now runs fine again.

Just need to put everything back together and I can go back to driving about in it.

(In the mean time I bought a spare vehicle to transfer my camper stuff over in case it was scrap, so if anyone wants a Peugeot Expert E7 let me know)

vaz2121 · 2019-08-21 12:00:09

I'm glad to hear the outcome that the van is alive and fighting again ..........
I'd also say your a lucky boy that valves weren't introduced to the pistons ...........
Not so sure about getting prognosis correct ............. Unless I'm changing my name to Jonah

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#1 2019-07-25 14:41:07

Bang :(

#2 2019-07-30 08:46:38

Re: Bang :(

#3 2019-07-30 13:58:41

Re: Bang :(

#4 2019-07-30 21:00:35

Re: Bang :(

#5 2019-07-30 22:22:30

Re: Bang :(

#6 2019-07-31 11:33:21

Re: Bang :(

#7 2019-07-31 11:35:27

Re: Bang :(

#8 2019-07-31 11:37:51

Re: Bang :(

#9 2019-08-01 19:55:44

Re: Bang :(

#10 2019-08-09 09:12:49

Re: Bang :(

#11 2019-08-09 20:31:30

Re: Bang :(

#12 2019-08-09 23:43:11

Re: Bang :(

#13 2019-08-10 05:02:34

Re: Bang :(

#14 2019-08-13 08:34:16

Re: Bang :(

#15 2019-08-13 16:28:54

Re: Bang :(

#16 2019-08-14 16:03:12

Re: Bang :(

#17 2019-08-17 17:15:21

Re: Bang :(

#18 2019-08-19 09:03:23

Re: Bang :(

#19 2019-08-21 12:00:09

Re: Bang :(

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