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#1 2019-11-19 23:25:45

Tony Jones
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 7

2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

I've read some similar but slightly different posts on this site with similar issues and I think it seems to be an increasingly common problem.
I have a Citroen Dispatch  (called Victor) 2.0L HDI 2004. owned from new now just over 100K miles. About eighteen months ago the van's engine suddenly stopped while driving, it restarted and no problems for several months.
This started to happen more frequently, when stopped turning the ignition off and on again, the temperature gauge goes mad swinging backwards and forwards and it will not restart until the gauge return to where it should be.
I changed the sender and all was well for several weeks then the same problem, I disconnected the sender and connected a fixed value resistor across the wire, this simulated a coolant  temperature of 70C all was well for a few weeks then the same problem.
The ECU has been tested and showed no faults, on its return and refitting the engine stopped after twenty minutes and would not restart, so a tow home was needed.
I ordered a plug and play ECU so the immobilizer is out of the picture, the van started and worked perfectly for a week until this evening, same problem.
In summery.
.1. No fault codes are ever stored.  .2.  During the fault condition a code reader displays "fail to communicate" .3. MIL (engine check light) does not illuminate during the fault when the ignition is turned on.  .4. Fault can occur at and speed, temperature, any weather conditions. .5. Battery Voltage is 14Volt with no excessive ripple. .6. When the temperature gauge returns to normal the MIL indicator comes on and the engine will restart.
I've contacted the AA Technical department, had the van at the local garage and at an auto electrical specialists non of whom have found the problem.
Getting concerned now that it's going to stop at a junction or somewhere dangerous, any help would be very welcome.  Tony Jones.

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#2 2019-11-20 00:46:29

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 727

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

This is not what you'd call helpful But it sounds very much electrical...............
Is the time delay from stopping to starting a coincidence (Making and breaking wire) or is it something breaking down due to Heat and  resetting when cooler (More engine bay temp or item within other than ambient)




A Diesel needs 3 things to run.....
Put a computer in control of a diesel and you need 103 things......
(Sorry) Wee Rant over

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#3 2019-11-20 10:56:59

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 252

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

Since you have already ruled out the sensor, it can only be a wiring problem to the ECU.
Someone has posted a sensor wiring fault on a 2006 2.0HDI here which identifies the 2 wires to check

Last edited by tee_cee (2019-11-20 10:57:44)

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#4 2019-11-20 11:34:05

k_wyndham_t
Member
Registered: 2018-06-01
Posts: 99

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

As above sounds very much like issues with the engine loom, they seam to degrade quite badly, seams particularly bad on facelift ones, although that might be because most of them have more loom to degrde and cause issues. My last one which was a 56 plate was particularly bad with 5 volt sensor circuits all going haywire, I stripped back all the crustly loom covering cleaned it all and rebound in loom tape and all was fine except occasional EML coming on when very wet.
Luckily my 2004 I now have had brand new crate engine destined for a later vehicle and appears to had a new loom at the same time.

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#5 2019-11-20 11:56:14

Tony Jones
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 7

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

Many thanks for your replies.
Engine bay or ambient temperature makes no difference, wet or dry either, I've started to hack my way into the loom in various places but the wires all seem fine. cleaned all ground connections.
One thing that I'm now thing about is loss of power to the ecu, no ecu no engine, and if no ecu power no fault code, this could be supported by the engine check light not being illuminated and fail to communicated with the code reader.
Later today I will look at how the ignition on supply gets to the ecu and or try and recreate the fault by pulling fuses or chopping wires.
I will look through the other posts again I must have missed the one about the two wires to check.
Tony Jones.

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#6 2019-11-20 12:49:57

Tiree
Administrator
From: Galloway
Registered: 2013-09-20
Posts: 266

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

Tony Jones wrote:

the temperature gauge goes mad swinging backwards and forwards and it will not restart until the gauge return to where it should be.

I realise this is just part of your issue - but my van temp gauge does this when my cheap copy ELM327 OBD II thing is plugged in. This was a bit of a red herring for me. Gauge behaves fine when the thing is disconnected.

Just in case you have one plugged in too.


2006 Citroen Dispatch 2.0HDi bought in July 2013 - Partial camper conversion ........

mini_citroen-dispatch2.jpeg

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#7 2019-11-20 14:51:34

steve the grease
Member
Registered: 2018-05-20
Posts: 58

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

Just to chuck in my three hapence worth....... The logic used in chips works on 5 volts . However  the readings are taken from the middle section around 1-4 volts . So anything more than 4 volts or less than 1v , is considered ' not a coherent reading'  That way if a reading is 5 volts for example , you can be fairly sure that something is shorted to live , likewise if a reading is 0 volts you can be fairly sure that it is short to earth.

Most systems do a 'post' which is "Power on self test" an ABS system is a perfect example, it checks all the circuitry and wheel sensors  so if a light comes on and you aren't moving  you can be fairly sure that its a bad connection in a wheel sensor. 

Yours is a similar fault in that it has 'failed to communicate' , its not shorted or anything but under test the sensor/circuit isn't  testing within the limits.

As well as the wiring it could be a faulty plug, they are designed for a limited number of plug ins/ disconnections and a certain lifespan ( say 0.01% faiures in 100,000 hours type of thing) so never assume it's not the plug . You are looking at the bloke here who bought 2 x wheels sensors and the fault was eventually  cured by soldering in 6 inches of wire and a sensor plug off a scrap car.....  Best of luck.

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#8 2019-11-22 00:17:06

Tony Jones
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 7

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

Something new that I've discovered today is that if you disconnect the ecu and turn on the ignition the temperature gauge goes from zero/rest to full scale deflection back to zero three times.
Before I start back engineering the wiring loom like a crashed flying saucer is there a relay that supplies the feed to the ecu and is there a fuse that protects the ecu supply(s).
I assume there is at least a constant Battery + and a switched ignition + supply.
Thanks Tony Jones.

Last edited by Tony Jones (2019-11-22 00:17:28)

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#9 2019-11-28 20:07:32

Tony Jones
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 7

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

Problem Resolved.
Fuel pump relay, contacts gone high resistance, Part ref 240109.
Rely cut open with hacksaw blade and contacts cleaned with fine wet and dry paper, just to confirm this was the problem.
New relay ordered £20.79 inc postage.

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#10 2019-11-29 21:39:03

Tiree
Administrator
From: Galloway
Registered: 2013-09-20
Posts: 266

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

Glad you got it sorted Tony - those relays have featured in quite a few of the feature-length problems on the forum this year! My own included.


2006 Citroen Dispatch 2.0HDi bought in July 2013 - Partial camper conversion ........

mini_citroen-dispatch2.jpeg

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#11 2019-12-03 00:31:47

Tony Jones
Member
Registered: 2019-11-19
Posts: 7

Re: 2.0L HDI Dispatch Sudden Engine Stop.

I'm pleased too, we were just about to spend over £20K on a new van and being terrified of leaving it anywhere and it being damaged and broken into.

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