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#1 2019-12-20 08:19:58

Rabnudj
Member
Registered: 2019-05-04
Posts: 23

Clutch bite almost at floor

HI,

Re: dispatch 2004 1.9D

I've started to find engaging first gear quite hard esp. when cold.  with the clutch to the floor i can gently grind the reverse gears together which proves (to my mind) the gearbox input shaft is not 100% free running, but still getting a bit of drive from the engine. The biting point is very close to the floor.

I've been told these are  hydraulic clutches and therefore not adjustable

Any thoughts or experience on this issue would be most welcome!


James

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#2 2019-12-20 19:20:08

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 1,610

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

Before wasting good cash on a new clutch kit when was the fluid last changed? I changed the brake and clutch fluid in my convoy as it was black and had water in it. The difference was staggering. If you have no history then i would try that first. Unsure where you bled the clutch fluid but i would look at the slave cylinder first.

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#3 2019-12-20 23:59:07

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 521

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

My gearbox is smooth as any apart from getting reverse from standstill.  I have to partialy release and re engage the cluch and all is ok.  It can be easier just snicking into reverse while just as it's rolling to a standstill on mine.  But from stationary, it needs caressing in.

Another cluch problem I had was when the pedal would randomly loose all tension and go right to the floor without pulling at all on the cluch.  As if the cable had snapped.  Turned out to be the self adjusting mechanism on the cable was letting go.

btw... anyone else find the angle of the cluch pedal a bit awkward?  I feel like I am pushing forwad almost as much as down on mine.  I have to be careful with muddy boots or my foot can slip right off the front edge of the pedle.  Can be very unerving.  Might be due to my seat position and the extra height from swivels.  Although it is quite far forward and the height should mean I am pushing down more.

Last edited by OAT (2019-12-21 00:00:18)

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#4 2019-12-21 01:57:50

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 922

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

my 2005 van has hydraulic clutch our 306 with a DW8 (van has DW8B) is Cable............

Looking down in area of air filter box on front of G/box (Nearest front panel) you should see slave cylinder and IIRC there is a bleed nipple visible on it Also............

Last edited by vaz2121 (2019-12-21 01:59:17)

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#5 2019-12-21 14:04:50

Rabnudj
Member
Registered: 2019-05-04
Posts: 23

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

I changed the brake and clutch fluid in my convoy as it was black and had water in it. The difference was staggering. If you have no history then i would try that first. Unsure where you bled the clutch fluid but i would look at the slave cylinder first.

Renewing the fluid is an excellent idea!    I can clearly see the bleed nipple on the gearbox, but am struggling to find and identify the slave cylinder (no idea what it would look like
) a little help would be good!

Question1: Does this circuit share the brake fluid reservoir ?
Question2: Purge technique?  OPen nipple, depress clutch, close nipple - ie, same as a brake system?


Thanks

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#6 2019-12-22 01:19:46

steve the grease
Member
Registered: 2018-05-20
Posts: 82

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

Bleeding may help , but all sounds like the clutch is nearly worn out.  As the clutch wears usually the pedal pressure increases and the clutch releases right at the full extent of pedal travel .

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#7 2019-12-22 18:08:04

Rabnudj
Member
Registered: 2019-05-04
Posts: 23

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

steve the grease wrote:

Bleeding may help , but all sounds like the clutch is nearly worn out.  As the clutch wears usually the pedal pressure increases and the clutch releases right at the full extent of pedal travel .


I did wonder if it was a sign of clutch wear... My brains logic made me think the biting point would get nearer the top until finally slipping.

I will still try bleeding system - it won't take long and I don't have anything to loose!

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#8 2020-01-12 17:47:49

RedSquirrel
Member
Registered: 2020-01-12
Posts: 15

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

Mine is a 1998 Mk 1 van, and I have just had clutch number 3 fitted for the same reason, ie clutch bite almost at floor.

The test is can you engage gears relatively easily when the engine is stopped? Is it more difficult when the engine is running?

If the answers are both “YES”, then it is likely the pressure plate has reached the end of it’s life. OK, mine is a mechanical linkage, but when the first clutch caused the problem, I got the selector cables replaced. That worked for a couple of weeks, then it got really bad. I had to stop the engine, select gear, then start the engine. Interesting as you can imagine. Had the clutch replaced and all was fine until recently, when the same symptoms appeared. So I anticipated the failure, and had it changed. It’s like a new van now. As it has done 275,000 miles, I think nearly 140k per clutch is a reasonable life. It’s a case of bite the bullet I think. My outlook is if it works it is a useful tool for doing the job, if it doesn’t it’s a heap of junk. OK, the clutch costs more than the van is worth according to the insurers, but spending £2000 a year to keep it running is £40 a week, which is not bad, and up to now I am way under this. Additional benefit, it isn’t one of the fancy electronic thingys, so it mostly works, and is easy to fix when it stops.

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#9 2020-04-26 17:48:43

cliffo
Member
Registered: 2017-08-04
Posts: 81

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

Just started my van for the first time in a while.

Could not engage gears with engine running. Can do so with the engine stopped.

It's an 'S' plate, 98 I think, 1.9D so this may be mechanical clutch linkage rather than hydraulic. Just getting my scruffies on to jack it up and have a look under.

From what I've read, replacing the clutch is not a hobbyist job but I don't know how I'm going to get it to a garage (after lockdown) as it is the back garden and needs a good bit of manoeuvring to get it to the street :-(

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#10 2020-04-27 00:25:10

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 922

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

cliffo wrote:

Just started my van for the first time in a while.

Could not engage gears with engine running. Can do so with the engine stopped.

It's an 'S' plate, 98 I think, 1.9D so this may be mechanical clutch linkage rather than hydraulic. Just getting my scruffies on to jack it up and have a look under.

From what I've read, replacing the clutch is not a hobbyist job but I don't know how I'm going to get it to a garage (after lockdown) as it is the back garden and needs a good bit of manoeuvring to get it to the street :-(

This is a little some what suck it and see and  my first Question is..........
1. Was all working Ok when You were last using regular ?............

2.How long is a while ? .............
3. Although went into gear OK when engine OFF .... ......... Did you start and run engine after said gear engagement and did all work of a fashion ? ..........

I'm trying to work out if clutch plate Has stuck to the Flywheel a bit like hand brake sticking to Drum or Disk after being applied for a while .............
If this is the case the only real answer is pretty much the same as freeing the brake but as you can't hit the geaxbox like you would the wheel to shock the Ferodo (brake and clutch linning type material) free you'll need to do it with a combo of trying to engage gear with, during and starting and running engine to give it that shock to free it.........
Cluth pedal pushed down in disengage position  at time of applying shock load if this is the case

This has happened  to me a couple of times Inc handbrake (handbrake is easy to avoid ... just dont apply) ............
Once freed I've had normal operation afterwards...............

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#11 2020-04-27 15:55:38

cliffo
Member
Registered: 2017-08-04
Posts: 81

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

I think the shock method is what I'll try in the first instance (well, second instance after I check the clutch cable is still cabling) as the clutch seemed to be OK when I parked it up last year.

Incidentally - I haven't tried turning on engine 'in gear' yet, as I'm unsure as to how the clutch is operating and I don't want to shoot right through the fence - I'll put some breeze block 'chocks' down.

Last edited by cliffo (2020-04-27 15:57:30)

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#12 2020-04-27 18:28:11

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 922

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

I had a thought......... (dangerous  big_smile )

Does anybody know if these Vans/Engines have that little removable tin plate at flywheel bellhousing area that might give some access to give a bit of a careful clout .............(Using like a brass Drift or Copper headed mallet)

with clutch disengaged and engine NOT Running of course

IT may take several attempts either way to be effective............

Last edited by vaz2121 (2020-04-27 18:33:28)

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#13 2020-04-27 18:33:41

cliffo
Member
Registered: 2017-08-04
Posts: 81

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

Ref "Starting it in gear" - think I'll jack the front end up and pop it on axle stands....

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#14 2020-04-27 22:17:34

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 521

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

cliffo wrote:

Ref "Starting it in gear" - think I'll jack the front end up and pop it on axle stands....

Could help but I don't think you will get the shock you want.

Also, as I mentioned above, if it is mechanical, it's a pretty technical (and expensive) self adjusting cable which can produce strange effects when it fails.

Last edited by OAT (2020-04-27 22:18:15)

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#15 2020-04-28 13:38:44

cliffo
Member
Registered: 2017-08-04
Posts: 81

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

Thanks folks, Vaz, OAT.

Put breezeblocks 6 inches in front of rear wheels.

Engaged first gear

Clutch hard down, right foot hovering above brake.

Turned ignitiion.

LURCH - brake - engine continues running.

Clutch still down, select all the other gears - and then reverse a bit.

Select neutral

Engine off.

Ignition on, start in neutral.

Clutch down - can still select other gears and move off :-)

The shock seems to have resolved it this time, just hope it's not an indication of issues down the line

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#16 2020-04-28 21:52:27

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 922

Re: Clutch bite almost at floor

Superb............ Best way to prevent this if vans laid up for a bit is to Start and run it in Neutral(Dipping clutch and selecting a gear) for a bit (5---10 mins regulaly) put a little heat in engine (High tick over 1200-1500rpm) give battery a little charge and work out as-well....

If you've got the space move it back and forward a bit.....
This can help with "flat Spotting the tyres"..........
I mean it helps stop it being "flatting off at the bottom" and then Bump Bump Bump when using first time for quite a bit after say standing in one place all winter............

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