Legal stuff

Dolomite · 2016-04-29 09:32:03

Had a quick look for a post referring to this (I thought I did one?) but cant find one.

Im wondering whether to do the paperwork on the van -

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s … orhome.pdf

this part in particular worries me:

so should I purposefully not comply with one of those criteria to avoid my van being illegal?

eg. I am just going to have the cooker sat on a worktop...

I don't know if anyone cares or has thought about this also?

Casper · 2016-04-29 10:23:46

If you have them all why not change the tax class. Advantage is a massive price deduction on a ferry from commercial to camper. I understand cheaper toll road pricing in mainland Europe and legally 10mph faster on UK motorways and country roads. I was going to do all that to change the tax but the double bed takes up to much room and we decided if we enjoy the van later this year in mainland Europe then we will be wanting a larger van so will do it all then.

I would doubt if you got a tug from the UK police they would bother checking it all unless you were giving them attitude.

goody33 · 2016-04-29 11:27:52

It could give your insurance provider enough to deny a claim if the van should be classed as a camper and is not.

Dolomite · 2016-04-29 13:23:14

goody33 wrote:

It could give your insurance provider enough to deny a claim if the van should be classed as a camper and is not.

This is what I was thinking..

Tiree · 2016-04-29 14:31:20

Is it not generally cheaper to insure as a camper?

tee_cee · 2016-04-29 15:03:41

It's a legal responsibility to keep your V5 up to date - hence the reminder. Given that you have to jump through hoops to get it reclassified, I'd say it would be very easy to get rejected, if this is what you wanted to do. tbh I doubt if anyone cares.
Regarding the ferry, I've always booked as a high car/mpv rather than a van or motorhome. They usually have a peek over my shoulder when checking in, but have never asked any further questions.
As for insurance, the main thing is to always tell them that the van has been modded.

Casper · 2016-04-29 15:34:20

tee_cee wrote:

Regarding the ferry, I've always booked as a high car/mpv rather than a van or motorhome. They usually have a peek over my shoulder when checking in, but have never asked any further questions.

Never thought of that option. You just saved me about £50 from the last time i looked. smile Anyone know the exact height and length without a roof box?

Tiree · 2016-04-29 15:40:40

Casper · 2016-04-29 15:49:04

Thanks Tiree for encouraging my laziness as the book is in the bedroom some 20 steps away. big_smile

Away back to P&O now to see if that makes a difference.

tee_cee · 2016-04-29 17:14:47

Casper wrote:

Thanks Tiree for encouraging my laziness as the book is in the bedroom some 20 steps away.
Away back to P&O now to see if that makes a difference.

With my online bookings, P&O Dover usually take a £5 deposit, rather than the whole amount.

Casper · 2016-04-29 19:14:02

Exact sizes made no difference on price. £336 for the van, two adults and the dog. We take our own food so thats not to bad from Hull to Zeebrugge. However i now know i have an extra 50cm to play with for the roof bag/box.

vaz2121 · 2016-04-30 07:39:43

Our van was converted new and such registered as motor home, but we don't have a fixed table .............. did the legislation change or was it removed for whatever reason

I would say my insurance is cheaper for a motor-home than if it was registered as a van because I think insurance co believe you still going to load it up and the other thing I found both now and prior (work related) that fire cover was void on a van if a cooker is used/installed within and insurance cover while abroad sketchy/extra (for whatever reason ... heading much further south than Pisa/Florence, Italy with the artic used to shoot our good in transit--vehicle insurance sky high)

I mentioned on a previous thread that I sailed DFDS Dover-Dunkirk last Oct and booked as car 2.35mx6m and that included roof-box (we had a dog/service van yrs ago that had a couple of bunks installed along with primus stove, sink and a porthole on N/S door, we shipped that across a couple time as motor-home and got away with it)

This size van is perfect to ship as a car/mpv... the last correspondence-booking I had (for next month) with a ferry operator was that it's MPV based van/combi convertion and used also as disability vehicle and badged as such and their reply in writing was " if it has seats and windows in the sides and back you can book under the car category 2.35*6m"

As for peage i believe that as the dispatch-scudo-expert is under 2m it's charged as car/mpv................ And I also read recently Tesco vouchers are being accepted by euro-tunnel still or again?........

tee_cee · 2016-04-30 10:13:10

Van insurance is a different beast with its own ncd. When I tried to get insurance online I kept getting redirected to van insurance, which without any ncd was going to be expensive. Went with Tesco who did not charge any extra for WAV vehicles on their car policies.
Re-registering meant that I had to switch over to a motorhome policy, which came out cheaper again.

Casper · 2016-04-30 19:10:38

So what if i wanted to change to MPV. Would i need fixed seats and belts in the rear and if so how many?

vaz2121 · 2016-04-30 19:43:29

tee_cee wrote:

Van insurance is a different beast with its own ncd. When I tried to get insurance online I kept getting redirected to van insurance, which without any ncd was going to be expensive. Went with Tesco who did not charge any extra for WAV vehicles on their car policies.
Re-registering meant that I had to switch over to a motorhome policy, which came out cheaper again.

It's quite an Emotive subject and not just Insurance side of things...... But you've hit it on the head, van (commercial vehicle) Insurance is a whole different ball game and what's perceived as a commercial vehicle even for private use.

I have a history with having commercial vehicle Insurance and my broker told me that although registered as a motor-home it still had a van taxation (Vehicle Reg) thingy so it kept triggering their software into commercial vehicle mode..... The company I was with would not accept motor-homes and would not accept the amount of modifications van had under a policy, They then found a company that would allow the full transfer of my NCD from car to camper and also give me a 60% discount on car if I insured it along with van...........

Long way for a short cut and commonsense does not always prevail ..... especially on-line or on the phone if it doesn't fit the so-called norm or if the answer is not on the idiot sheet you can end up in a pickle

Worst part is even after you've informed and they accept and take your money....... it's not just satisfying PC plod that you have or have correct insurance it's god forbid should the worst come round will they do what their meant to...........(I had a very large claim against me years ago for a trailer of Compaq laptops N spares got lost/stolen when shipped out by P&O to Zeebrugger... cut a long story short... my insurance only covered me when my trailer was hooked into the Artic and if I was in truck... so if it got stolen when you went for a pee.......TOUGH)

tee_cee · 2016-05-01 11:13:01

Oddly according to the DVLA, the "body type" e.g. motor caravan, only defines what the vehicle looks like, and not what it is necessarily used for. The "taxation class" e.g PLG defines how it is being used. However for motor caravans under 3t, they also confirm that PLG is the correct taxation class!
With the ferry company, I think that they just want to make sure that the vehicle is not a commercial van, so side windows and general camper layout should be enough. The risk is that they could treat it as a van or motorhome, which will be more expensive but I was ready to argue the point on the basis that the body is the same as the 806.

vaz2121 · 2016-05-02 10:04:43

tee_cee wrote:

The risk is that they could treat it as a van or motorhome, which will be more expensive but I was ready to argue the point on the basis that the body is the same as the 806.

That was/is my argument that I had back I think last Oct/Sept when we popped over for a few days, I had "if it's converted to camper then it needs to be booked as one"

My answer to that was... As my partner is (One) disabled we have what is effectively a disability adapted vehicle
(Two).... She is in remission and gets weak/tired easily , so therefore she needs to rest/recover hence this vehicle as is.....

Personally I feel/experienced that when you get to the booking gate as long as vehicle looks close to what it's booked as you should be fine....IE 2.35M x 6M does us fine but don't just arrive with a huge motor-home booked as a standard car

I believe our Dispatch comes under "Vehicle type approval N1"...... which makes it a van or van derived...... hence road tax not by emissions .... yet it's not recognized by LEZ and can enter London without penalty ?

vaz2121 · 2016-05-02 11:09:32

Casper wrote:

So what if i wanted to change to MPV. Would i need fixed seats and belts in the rear and if so how many?

Good question.... a friend has either a fancy traffic/vivaro that came out factory with side door windows ... rear seats ... bulkhead.... van space.....Must ask him what it's classed as

BigRob · 2016-05-02 15:58:27

This weekend I was turned away from 2 campsites as they don't allow commercial vehicles on site, I haven't had this before. Might be 1 plus side to changing the paper work.

tee_cee · 2016-05-02 17:23:32

vaz2121 wrote:

tee_cee wrote:
The risk is that they could treat it as a van or motorhome, which will be more expensive but I was ready to argue the point on the basis that the body is the same as the 806.
That was/is my argument that I had back I think last Oct/Sept when we popped over for a few days, I had "if it's converted to camper then it needs to be booked as one"
My answer to that was... As my partner is (One) disabled we have what is effectively a disability adapted vehicle
(Two).... She is in remission and gets weak/tired easily , so therefore she needs to rest/recover hence this vehicle as is.....

Personally I feel/experienced that when you get to the booking gate as long as vehicle looks close to what it's booked as you should be fine....IE 2.35M x 6M does us fine but don't just arrive with a huge motor-home booked as a standard car

I believe our Dispatch comes under "Vehicle type approval N1"...... which makes it a van or van derived...... hence road tax not by emissions .... yet it's not recognized by LEZ and can enter London without penalty ?

Who were you traveling with?

vaz2121 · 2016-05-02 22:56:19

tee_cee wrote:

Who were you traveling with?

We've traveled with DFDS.......Dover///Calais/Dunkirk

Last edited by vaz2121 (2016-05-03 09:59:19)

vaz2121 · 2016-05-03 09:58:27

vaz2121 wrote:

Casper wrote:
So what if i wanted to change to MPV. Would i need fixed seats and belts in the rear and if so how many?
Good question.... a friend has either a fancy traffic/vivaro that came out factory with side door windows ... rear seats ... bulkhead.... van space.....Must ask him what it's classed as

He got back to me to say on his V5 docs is Renault Traffic..... "Van with Windows"

Which surprised me... as it's one of those fancy ones with bells N whistles, rear seats and a bulk head to separate the passenger compartment from load space/boot....and used as private car.....even He thought it was a combi van/MPV

It was bought at just around couple years old so could it be down to original owner registering it for business use?

monkeynut · 2016-05-03 12:40:04

Mine is classed as a PLG They changed it when i taxed it as it was no longer a WAV on Disabled tax has Windows all round

tee_cee · 2016-05-03 13:21:00

vaz2121 wrote:

tee_cee wrote:
Who were you traveling with?
We've traveled with DFDS.......Dover///Calais/Dunkirk

With the van we've always used P&O at Dover, and Stena for Liverpool-Belfast without issues at checkin.
Have used DFDS in the past and found them cheap but very unprofessional.

Casper · 2016-05-04 06:44:58

monkeynut wrote:

Mine is classed as a PLG They changed it when i taxed it as it was no longer a WAV on Disabled tax has Windows all round

Mine says PLG panel van but it has slightly less panels now due to windows. Is yours called panel van also?

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#1 2016-04-29 09:32:03

Legal stuff

#2 2016-04-29 10:23:46

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