The dreaded sill rust

JaneG612 · 2020-10-29 11:57:53

Hello,

Lurked for a while but finally made an account though wish it was for a happier reason. I have a 2004 Scudo 16v JTD that I (very roughly) converted to a minicamper. I've had it a while and am extremely attached to it - it does have 180,000 on the clock but it has always run lovely for me with no breakdowns (except that one exciting time a turbo hose exploded).

I've sadly been told the sill rust (which always looked small but deep down I knew was probably a bigger problem inside) alongside the rust on the back corner of the frame behind the back wheels will mean it should be scrapped before its next mot. I've seen JohnDragonMans and woodbines threads about it but I don't have any welding skills to fix it myself and I'm not in Bristol to go round the recommended welders there.

I suspect its probably time to say goodbye to the van but I want to feel I've done my best to explore all the options before just giving up. Does anyone have recommendations for welders in South Manchester or Derbyshire who would be willing to have a look at it to see?

Cheers,
Jane

Casper · 2020-10-29 20:49:40

You could go buy a hobby mig and learn a new skill. The weld dont have to look pretty just needs to satisfy the MOT man.

JohnDragonMan · 2020-10-30 02:54:21

hmm i tried loads of places here in Derby but they all gave me silly quotes. i didnt try every place though, only the places local to where i work.

is the rust in the same place as mine was? i do have what was left of my replacement sill panels you could have if you wanted. the very back parts have been cut out as its the bits i needed but the rest of them are complete.

yeah i can vouch for the giving the welding a go thing. i can be quite therapeutic.. the annoying part is cutting the old metal out, cleaning up, and making the plates. the welding bit is not so bad on these vans.

the back corners, jetwash the hell out of them, remove the loose / flaky rust, paint it all with a good metal paint with built in rust converter then cover the whole thing over like i did. make it a sealed cavity (like how it should have been from the factory)

i will ask around, see what i can come up with. a few did say they would get back to me but i never called them back.

JaneG612 · 2020-10-30 20:44:13

Thanks for your replies.

I would like to learn to weld someday but I've no good place to do it at the moment and it seems like a really difficult job to start on as its tight and all vertical or upside down. Though my Dad is a good agricultural stick welder but has never done MIG or TIG so says he doesn't want to go near any thin metal jobs. But if I turned up back at the farm with a nice new hobby MIG maybe I could get pointed in the right direction... Just seems very daunting plus I'm also a bit scared of grinders. Would be very satisfying to learn something new though.

Thank you very much for the offer of the sills John but sadly mine are rusty in exactly the same places as yours were. Did you use all 4 ends? I'm really worried mine is bad higher up than yours were on the inner sill and that'll probably be even more arsey to try and get into.

I've got someone said they'd look at it and give an estimate next week so I'll see what he says. Sort of feel like I could maybe tackle the back bit myself with a very steep learning curve but the sills look too difficult. Just really don't want to get rid of the van, couldn't face driving a perfectly functioning vehicle I like this much to go off to be scrapped.

JohnDragonMan · 2020-10-30 21:40:20

i too despise grinders.. to the point where i used tin snips for most of the cutting work and only used a adjustable speed grinder where i had to... on very low speeds.

yes i know what you mean with how likeable these vans are... before i did any work on my van i had only driven it down the road. thats it. no use or work commute. just that one little bit of a drive told me that it was the vehicle for me. so i set about to make it.. my level of perfect. even i am amazed looking back at what i went through to get it where it is now. because i did the work i made it so i know ill never have rust issues again. its just a shame the camper conversion part is not done yet. i really struggel with working out wood cuts for cupboard sizes sad

i have to say that mig welding is ahh quite nice. coming from stick welding and swapping over to mig... best thing i ever did. with a 0.4mm wire you can weld even the thinnest of metal with pretty much no skill and somehow still achieve a really nice weld.

well being as i am local(ish? west derby here) i dont mind having a look and "predicting" how much internal rust will be hiding.

i only had rust on the rear part of the sills so the front corners on the replacement panels were never cut up if you need them.

just remember: underseal hides pretty much all sins. cavity rust proofing (all hail Dynax S50) stops those sins getting bigger lol

JaneG612 · 2020-10-30 22:07:26

An expert rust prediction would be fantastic, definitely worth taking a drive over to Derby for sometime. Plus on the way I can be thinking about how nicely the van is driving which will encourage me to take on daft projects like learning to weld on tiny annoying vertical surfaces.

Casper · 2020-10-30 23:24:22

I sacked my Pug Expert micro camper Jane due to size. Was only looking for for something a few feet larger and an LDV pilot was fitting the bill but reading up about them they were prone to rust and shared almost the same Pug engine. The lass who bought my Expert was also looking at them and was put off with rust horror stories so bought my van. Now i was after a larger one. I bought an LDV Convoy. Renowned for rust problems but larger than the pilot. What got me onto this i bought it in Derby but live close to Edinburgh. I could not weld and still not all that great but the convoy had a few holes. I bought a new Gasless MIG welder for 80 quid and after a few practice shits in the back garden i tackled my big old bus. Filled all the holes and ran that for three years. Wifes car failed the MOT on rust and again out came the 80 quid welder. Welding looked like shit but when i took it back for the re test it was a pass. I just slowly played away with old bits of steel till i was happy not to burn larger holes in the steel that i was meant to cover up. Gas is better as apparently you have more control on the heat so looking into that myself as i bought a larger LDV what i would like to keep for a good few years.

Dont be shy. Give welding a try big_smile

As for the angle grinder. Dont be a wimp and get on with it. Take the stupid side handle off for better control and always use the guard till you are more confident. Get to B&Q or the likes where you can pick them up and feel the weight as some are heavy and awkward to use then again you can get small lightweight ones what will be better to use when upside down under a van.

JohnDragonMan · 2020-10-31 03:29:06

a grinder with a speed control is so handy. its more like a confidence setting. start slow and work the speed up as you feel better using it. its literally how i got into using one.

now some tips when looking for a mig welder, i always recommend one that uses gas. gasless wire works in welders that have or have not got gas capabilities. for welding cars you do not need a welder that takes anything higher than 0.8mm wire. i have built no end of things and never needed anything higher than 0.8 wire all of the repairs i did on my van was using 0.8mm wire. old co2 fire extinguishers make for perfect welding gas. a cheap "pub gas" regulator is all you need and you are no longer paying £15 per 600g of co2 but now paying £15 to have a fire extinguisher filled with 6KG of co2. lasts 10 times longer! a cheap £15 auto darkening mask saves so much hassle. i even have a pair of auto darkening face goggles now too! welding gloves are nice.

i work in a scrap yard and one of the things i do sometimes is weld up our skips. should see the mig welder i use for that. 3 phase 500 amp rated.. ive not managed to take it to its limits as when i put it over setting 4 (out of 10!) it trips the building out which it stripped at 32 amps! i mostly use 1mm wire on that. so not good for thin stuff.

i often take my van up north derbyshire as a bit of a "get away from it all" thing. yeah its what i got it for. may not be a camper yet but i can still use it as one! looking forward to getting running hot water in it though... i know im nuts. just bought the last bit needed to do it big_smile

OAT · 2020-10-31 13:22:02

My own welding experience was with oil cooled stick welders in the shipyard. Like oversized dustbins that needed a crane to move them.
Don't remember what power they were but they could use rods over 1/2". By striking and sticking a thick rod to a bulkhead, you could get the rod glowing red and make a very good electric heater. Another trick was to coil the long thick cables up and levitate bits of bar in the magnetic field in the middle of the coil.
The most amusing trick was to sneak up behind another welder and weld his boot heels to the deck.
This was all before the invention of health and safety of course.

Last edited by OAT (2020-10-31 13:23:13)

kenbw2 · 2020-10-31 19:40:58

I got shit loads of welding done on mine when I first got it. More behind the front wheel arches than the sills, but he did a great job for cheap.

Diesel Dave up in Keighley

JaneG612 · 2020-11-02 19:11:51

Thanks everyone. Apparently there's a MIG I can use at the farm if I take the van back there, think the whole job is a bit beyond me though so will see what the welder says first and then re-review my options.

JohnDragonMan wrote:

i often take my van up north derbyshire as a bit of a "get away from it all" thing. yeah its what i got it for. may not be a camper yet but i can still use it as one! looking forward to getting running hot water in it though... i know im nuts. just bought the last bit needed to do it

I think I've got my emails setup from the forum, so if you are heading High Peak anytime let me know.

Cheers,
Jane

JaneG612 · 2021-02-20 18:51:27

It seemed like a mad idea, but after driving down to Derby to get some advice and encouragement from JohnDragonMan (and continued advice over the next month of trying it) I booked the ferry to Ireland and got on with it.

They were a sad state when we cut into them but luckily my dad turned out to get the hang of MIG welding pretty quickly. I did lots of gophering, disk changing and paint grinding but remained too scared to use the cutting disks or the welder. Maybe someday.

Proud MOT pass last week, feels great to get it done and the Scudo gets to live to fight another day. Didn't do the drivers side ones though as they were just about hanging in there - sprayed a lot of dynax in and made them a job for future...

Rear

Replacement panel

Rebuilt jacking point

Closed up

Front

Front closed

Success!

Last edited by JaneG612 (2021-02-20 18:56:50)

JohnDragonMan · 2021-02-20 20:01:44

perfection. knew you guys could do it! big_smile

Casper · 2021-02-20 21:22:16

Who hoo. Well done. Great feeling knowing your own work earned that MOT

kenbw2 · 2021-02-20 22:27:39

Fansastic work. The more I see these photos, the more I tell myself there's no need for me to look inside mine because I know they're pristine factory fresh neutral

Casper · 2021-02-20 22:33:26

kenbw2 wrote:

Fansastic work. The more I see these photos, the more I tell myself there's no need for me to look inside mine because I know they're pristine factory fresh

Unlike mine what have bubbles and crackle when pressed big_smile They can stay that way as its looking like i am in need of a larger work van so the dispatch may have to go come the summer

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#1 2020-10-29 11:57:53

The dreaded sill rust

#2 2020-10-29 20:49:40

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#3 2020-10-30 02:54:21

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#4 2020-10-30 20:44:13

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#5 2020-10-30 21:40:20

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#6 2020-10-30 22:07:26

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#7 2020-10-30 23:24:22

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#8 2020-10-31 03:29:06

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#9 2020-10-31 13:22:02

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#10 2020-10-31 19:40:58

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#11 2020-11-02 19:11:51

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#12 2021-02-20 18:51:27

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#13 2021-02-20 20:01:44

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#14 2021-02-20 21:22:16

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#15 2021-02-20 22:27:39

Re: The dreaded sill rust

#16 2021-02-20 22:33:26

Re: The dreaded sill rust

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