Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

vaz2121 · 2020-12-14 18:11:01

I have been spending a bit of time on this too much probibly........................

I've tested {in situ} Relay operation ....... and it appears to be doing what it's meant to do and when
It's not been that cold lately Mostly wet and the Van is starting fine if as Casper says wait a good extra 5---10 secs after dash light goes out or if you hear Control Relay click off................
But even then it still doesnt burst {IMHO} into life as quickly or as enthusiastically as the 306 on a "normal" heat cycle and which is doing as much as van is at moment {nothing} but 306 started even less........
{[van] No starting issues if it's been running that day at all .... even if left a few hours ....all appears normal}.......

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I've come across the possibility that it could be the water level/temp sensor? {which is it? and not allowing plugs full wattage} inserted on header tank that's going or gone bad {found a piece about this on line relating to a DW8 in an earlyish Berlingo}..........
Like them I have no outstanding dash lights on and no indication of any issues even to the point I've disconnected sensor and still nothing is lit and temp gauge seems to behave normal......this also the same when van is running....
[But yet to attempt a first thing cold start .......... disconnected]

Question is how to test this said sensor on top of header tank {nothing on web page shows how diagnosed just theirs was faulty with no lights on dash} and how to change it out if it is this....Also is this a citroen dealer only part?.................

Any input on such will be greatly received and considered..........
(The van has cheapo (probably chinese) glowplugs fitted, The 306 has a very much older set of Beru glowplugs in it)...............

vaz2121 · 2020-12-18 01:51:03

So far...........

3 or 4 days past and no input.........
So ............... Where have we heard this before ..........

Thanks for nothing........... tongue tongue tongue tongue big_smile
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The said sensor (It's a level Sensor) came out header tank by a 90 degree Anti- Clock wise turn and is fitted with an "O" Ring ............
Some gentle levering with one of those plastic trim tools helped ...............

I cleaned the two metal prongs with an emery board that I pinched from the Memsab (I'm bound to get found out)
prongs suffered some discoloration and Had some of that lime scale deposits a kettle gets

Cleaned up to shiny metal again......... refitted

It was very much far from cold this morning at 10.00 am when I got round to refitting sensor..........

There seemed an improvement but I think the 306 was still more enthusiastic to starting (both on 1 indicated heat cycle) .............when I tried about half hour after Van ...........

I Guess try again when colder see what transpires

vaz2121 · 2021-01-19 12:21:05

My Father who is almost 95 ended up in Hospital for 2 weeks and Van etc was never looked/started at for almost 3 weeks, Although wet now it had been down to about -10 in those 3 weeks on occasion...................

And Van still lounging in front garden all this time............
{About 3 or 4 months now} .............

I've put a another glowplug control relay on it ......
And now it seems to be back more eager to start ...........
More like how it was .........

But I'm sure time and temp will tell .........

Mrsuperheterodyne · 2021-01-19 22:13:04

Mine was terrible at starting in the morning.
Was so bad that one morning I thought the head gasket had gone, as there felt to be no compression.

New battery and glow plugs have now made it better by far.
Will start on the second attempt now which is a lot better.

Starts well during the day - it was just the morning that gave trouble.

I do wander if the EGR bypass might help it start a little better?

I suspect some air ingress in my case - could this be the case too on yours?
I will fit a non return valve to mine to see if it helps.

Also I had considered a sluggish / tired starter motor - but don't need the expense or have the time at the moment.

Last edited by Mrsuperheterodyne (2021-01-19 22:14:57)

Casper · 2021-01-19 22:25:58

Mrsuperheterodyne wrote:

Also I had considered a sluggish / tired starter motor - but don't need the expense or have the time at the moment.

Is your flywheel DMF? On my Convoy when it starts to go it slowly brakes down sending debris all over the bellhousing and into the starter motor. Eventually it bungs it up to teh point where it wont fling out the wee cog. Could this be an issue here?

Mrsuperheterodyne · 2021-01-19 22:34:04

Solid flywheel I believe Casper.
I know what you mean though, I had a Transit the same.
The starter was at the bottom of the bellhousing and when I changed the starter on that - it came with a warning that unless the DMF was also changed then there would be no warranty.

I'm going to go down the non return valve route next as there are bubbles in the clear pipe.
New filter and new o ring fitted but that made no difference. It was due those anyway as the old filter was black.

vaz2121 · 2021-01-20 04:02:40

Mrsuperheterodyne: I had a clutch fitted to my Van a couple years ago now and No mention of DMF and along with cost to do job I assumed solid flywheel.............

On the EGR front I followed a posting on here where by the EGR is still fitted but disabled this was also achieved on the 306 and was slightly less involved ..........

At one time the 306 had a blank cut from a coke or pepsi can inserted into where the flared (Clip at inlet) joint is to block the EGR off.....
But the exhaust heat over time {no idea how long it took was in there for a good 20,000 mls} had burnt a hole through the [thin] alloy of the can.......

Casper · 2021-01-20 11:24:20

Just having a look and its looking like the 2.0 is DMF with conversion kits available.

Mrsuperheterodyne · 2021-01-20 16:43:50

Vaz2121 - I wonder how many from the forum have diabled their EGR systems.

I read a post by GRIFFIN explaining the very simple procedure of blanking the two vacuum pipes, so very easy to do.

Would be keen to know of long term experiences, as I would like to do mine having seen how much oily soot is in my intake.
I had no time to clean and remove during the last work I did as I needed to use the van for work, but the memory of all that sooty oil does haunt me a little lol lol

Casper: Thanks for that info - I didn't think mine had a DMF being the 1.9 DW8.
Judders as you take the clutch up though on a cold engine, but I just put that down to a thrust bearing or something.
It's not severe enough to warrant removing the box or anything.

smile smile

Casper · 2021-01-20 18:34:37

I get the cold morning judder also. Mechanic mate seems to think contaminated clutch plate, possibly oil but i think i should just give him a slap.

I have since got used to the judder and my last DW8 did it also.

scotchjoe · 2021-01-20 18:55:08

My DW8B also has the morning judders,keeping the revs up when pulling away solves the juddering for me.

Mrsuperheterodyne · 2021-01-20 19:23:00

Glad I'm not the only one with the judders!

Seems it's common then.

Mine goes with higher revs too and seems to get less and less as the thing warms up.

I was thinking oil contaminant on the clutch too, but I keep blocking that thought out because I don't fancy getting to that main shaft seal hahah.

Thanks cool cool

Casper · 2021-01-20 19:27:36

Well if only you had the 2.0 as you would be changing the DMF at the next clutch change anyway so you could have got it then tongue

vaz2121 · 2021-01-21 02:57:33

I'll join in and say I get the judders too .........

Apart from the original clutch {was told it was breaking up and out of true} falling to bits and giving massive juddery uncontrollable vibes .............
I get on occasion the judders but not always.... Usually at the botom of the hill in the cul-de-sac and I'm turning ..... just started/cold Vehicle.............

And rarely at any other time ..........

The original never did that until it's failure only since fitting the after market LUK one ...........

As for EGR I Haven't needed to look since ......

Don't see any issues with Engine in it's opperation.................
Both have done a few good trips/miles or so since and also stood about ................

A DW8 is never going to set you back in your seat ...set a crik in neck......
But was convinced especially the 306 was a little more responsive pokier...........
[The 306 is basically on retirement Duties now but none the less is at 212,000 mls]

Could just as easy be the placebo effect

Last edited by vaz2121 (2021-01-21 02:58:24)

vaz2121 · 2021-01-26 08:53:25

A funny thing the other Night/Day we got down to at least -10c and then later at approx warmeer-5c I tried to start Van witout much luck ...........
But a couple hours later the 306 fired up and complained a tad {had a miss at high idle} for a bit..........

Not a clue on temp at 22.30hrs last-night other than {warmer than other night, I'd got in 306 without doors being frozen shut} a frost/freezing though.............
I'd had put van battery on {a smart charger} charge {and the old battery on a dumb charger} ................
Tonight I decided and tried a start and Van bust into life no worries (after about 2 fairly cold -c days sitting idle/without running)...........
I'm thinking that I'm down on a plug, have a slow lazy plug or it's a weak ish battery i'v'e got even if it's meant to be a new replacement had battery for van about 4 weeks now ...........
Maybe it's just needing some more use {like the 306 is currently getting}...............

As I've said New doesn't mean better

vaz2121 · 2021-03-21 04:51:33

well what can I say...........
With all this extra time at home with lockdown etc.............
And having these Lockdown exercise walks every day..........
I had thinking time (dangerous activity)..........

So I made the Executive Decision to change the Vans glow plugs .............
About 3 weeks ago we used the van to go to the Gartnavel Hospital in Glasgow...........
Apart from the sluggish early morning start both us and Van all went reasonably well .........
{Took Van so we could have a cuppa when she came out and I had a lie-down and watched a flim on netflix [Ipad] during the treatment session}

Only had another set of cheapo glow plugs available lying about so fitted them after testing they worked ............
After getting scratched to Bug***** and refitting new plugs...........
I found That during testing the old [About 18 months old] glow plugs I was down a glow plug after all ..........

To celebrate the 306 got 12 ltrs of cooking oil to bring it to just over half a tank and then it decided that evening to become problematic at cold starting.........
So it appears to have gone down a plug now .............
I had a good raid of the shed..........
I've got the 3 dubious but working plugs out Van and I found one unused Beru glow plug ......

So as before take each plug out 306 test it and mix and match a half decent set for it.............
{It is on retirement duties....... after all}

Obviously they work.........
I don't think the chepo plugs are as hot or long lasting as Beru or NGK's ........

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#1 2020-12-14 18:11:01

Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#2 2020-12-18 01:51:03

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#3 2021-01-19 12:21:05

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#4 2021-01-19 22:13:04

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#5 2021-01-19 22:25:58

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#6 2021-01-19 22:34:04

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#7 2021-01-20 04:02:40

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#8 2021-01-20 11:24:20

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#9 2021-01-20 16:43:50

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#10 2021-01-20 18:34:37

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#11 2021-01-20 18:55:08

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#12 2021-01-20 19:23:00

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#13 2021-01-20 19:27:36

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#14 2021-01-21 02:57:33

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#15 2021-01-26 08:53:25

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

#16 2021-03-21 04:51:33

Re: Glow Plugs Re-visited............ again

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