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#1 2021-01-25 19:14:28

March Hare
Member
Registered: 2021-01-25
Posts: 11

Cambelt whine after change

I'm new here, so hello everyone.

I have an X reg Scudo 1.9 non turbo. She's in pretty good nick for her age. I'm only her third owner, I know she's been called Fifi from new, and been well loved. I bought her last April after the sad demise of my Briefcase, a 2002 Dispatch 1.9D, due to rot and gearbox issues (again).

I've always done my own mechanics, but decided to have the cambelt and glow plugs done by my local garage this winter - what a treat!

However - after  collecting Fifi today I notice she makes an uncomfortably loud whining noise from the cambelt. At some rpm's, I guess around 2500, it's really bad, almost crunchy.

I've had DW8 and XUD engines (3 x 405's) for many years. I did the Briefcase's cambelt myself 3 years ago. None them ever sounded like this, or even whined at all.

So.. any advice or input much appreciated, before I take it back tomorrow (which I am dreading) to say "Listen to this" and "I'm not happy". It just sounds wrong! I think it's too tight. Anyone?

Cheers.

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#2 2021-01-25 19:41:23

scotchjoe
Member
From: Northern Ireland
Registered: 2020-01-08
Posts: 64

Re: Cambelt whine after change

If the whining is worse after a short warm up,then the belt is too tight.As you suspected.
I try and do all my own work as you usually do yourself.Taking a 14 year plus old vehicle to a garage will probably end up with it being used as training aid for an apprentice.

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#3 2021-01-25 19:55:58

March Hare
Member
Registered: 2021-01-25
Posts: 11

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Taking a 14 year plus old vehicle to a garage will probably end up with it being used as training aid for an apprentice.

Succinctly put and sadly true. I feel a little foolish about this tbh. I should know better by now.

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#4 2021-01-25 20:52:39

kenbw2
Member
From: Anywhere the van takes me
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 720

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Can you take the cover off and look at what's going on? Did they just replace the belt or also the water pump/tensioner?

Just don't end up with my very very close call

wRF1z0s.jpg


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#5 2021-01-25 22:06:36

March Hare
Member
Registered: 2021-01-25
Posts: 11

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Ooh! You're not kidding!

You're right, I should do that in the morning, get a glimpse of the water pump just to be sure. Also check the coolant colour and level.

Thing is, I'm confident he has done what he was meant to. Overdone it if anything! He's surely been in there, I can see the nuts and bolts have been off, I can just see the belt and it's bright markings through a missing bit of cover. And it has a new top engine mount, which is fair enough in my book at 20 years.

But its awkward isn't it, taking it back? Granny, eggs, and so on.
I think I hoped a couple of you would say no, it's fine, it'll settle down... but Scotchjoe has confirmed my gut feeling.



,

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#6 2021-01-25 22:18:47

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 1,786

Re: Cambelt whine after change

I worked for Group4 years ago working as a keyholder for alarm activations. We had 3 Pug 306's on lease and 100k in under a year was very much doable. The cars in our time a a couple of belt changes and the cars got changed every three years. Almost every time they cars came back from getting a new belt they whined for a while and this was always done at a pug dealer. We just carried on as normal and never did one snap or cause water pump failure or any other item for that mater.

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#7 2021-01-25 22:43:47

kenbw2
Member
From: Anywhere the van takes me
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 720

Re: Cambelt whine after change

I wouldn't have any qualms about going back and talking to them about it. I agree with your worries, but I reckon as long as you don't be all acccusational you should be alright.

"I've noticed this noise since I got it, do you know what might be going on?"

For the record, I think mine did make a noise, and the reason it looked like that was because it was hanging off the pulley and scraping the side of the belt cover

Last edited by kenbw2 (2021-01-25 22:44:44)


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#8 2021-01-25 23:08:05

March Hare
Member
Registered: 2021-01-25
Posts: 11

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Thanks Casper that is good information.

In my experience, I change belts and bearings to make things quieter/smoother. This appears to be the opposite. I may of course be wrong and its fine.

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#9 2021-01-25 23:29:08

March Hare
Member
Registered: 2021-01-25
Posts: 11

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Hi Kenbw2

I know the scraping noise, yep. On the Briefcase it was 'That's a new noise, its running, do I turn it off now or drive it home?'. I drove it home, 5 miles. The tensioner bearing had collapsed and seized and I could see the cover moving in and out. I believe that cambelt set had only 30 thousand on it. Hence my concern tonight.

You're right about going back. I'll have another think, listen, and look in the morning.

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#10 2021-01-26 01:25:20

vaz2121
Member
From: Glasgow Living:~ SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 1,073

Re: Cambelt whine after change

I'm going to agree with the possable to tight theory............ 
Was it just a belt on it's own fitted........
If so a little tighter on those old pulleys Etc even at correct tension could cause them to complain...........
If belt change was a complete kit I think it's fair to say dependant on level of whine it wants checking out ..........

NEW Doesn't allways mean better

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#11 2021-01-26 20:20:13

March Hare
Member
Registered: 2021-01-25
Posts: 11

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Evening all. Bit of an update for those that may be interested.

Today I took Fifi 20 miles to another garage to get a second opinion.

I did not tell the mechanic what to expect, I just said 'listen' and started the engine.
"Ooh, that cambelt is waaay too tight!!"

Thank you.

So tomorrow, now that my rage has subsided somewhat, I will go back to my local garage and explain my position.
I either want it re-tensioned properly or the cost of the kit and labour returned.

After all, the old belt still had 15 thousand before the due interval. I wanted peace of mind, not the lifespan of my engine shortened!

However this pans out, I can see myself doing it again within 20 thousand miles, just to be sure. What a waste of money and time.

I may also mention that when I went to collect it yesterday my van - my work van, with most of my tools inside, hundreds of pounds worth - was parked in the road outside, unlocked with the keys in and window open in the rain. Greasy hand prints all over the white paint. Mechanic out on a test drive. No one in the workshop. Really?!

Thanks for your advice and support on here. I'm glad I found you. I hope I can be of use to others too as I have plenty of experience in this field!

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#12 2021-01-26 21:36:40

kenbw2
Member
From: Anywhere the van takes me
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 720

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Well that's terrible.

March Hare wrote:

After all, the old belt still had 15 thousand before the due interval. I wanted peace of mind, not the lifespan of my engine shortened!

Completely agree - timing belt is one of those things you absolutely want done right. So annoying that you decided to do the right thing and ended up worse off  mad

Good thing you didn't trust it and are taking the steps to make it right


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#13 2021-01-27 19:16:06

March Hare
Member
Registered: 2021-01-25
Posts: 11

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Evening all.

I was back at the garage at 9 this morning. Luckily caught the the two guys I wanted at once. It was pretty clear how bad it sounded, so no arguments. I also ran through a list of other complaints (they really need someone who can use a pen and a telephone!) and they listened.

Actually the mechanic looked mortified. They were very good. Gave me a lift home, and got on it straight away.

Fifi is home now and sounds normal. Absolutely no whine at all. Free MOT and oil change when due.

Said they had used a digital meter to set the tension to spec, which was of course way out when they checked. Hmm.

They have returned the meter. They didn't say (and I didn't ask) how many times they'd used it before I came along. I told them to rely on their ears more, like proper engineers!

Where are we when the customer tells the mechanic what sounds right?

All good now anyway. I should never have doubted my instinct, but we've all learned something!

Last edited by March Hare (2021-01-27 20:17:45)

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#14 2021-01-27 19:50:21

kenbw2
Member
From: Anywhere the van takes me
Registered: 2017-11-26
Posts: 720

Re: Cambelt whine after change

I've learned that I would never trust myself to not balls up a timing belt, but I also can't trust a professional to not balls up a timing belt!

Remaining question is, how much do I trust my current timing belt to not balls itself up  yikes


2000 Citroen Dispatch 1.9TD XUD9 Camper Conversion + full time home
1999 Citroen Dispatch 1.9D DW8 Disassembled Camper Conversion
1996 Peugeot 806 1.9TD XUD9 Spare vehicle
1998 Citroen Synergie 1.9TD XUD9 Snapped timing belt

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#15 2021-01-31 11:52:50

scotchjoe
Member
From: Northern Ireland
Registered: 2020-01-08
Posts: 64

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Glad you got it sorted.

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#16 2021-02-01 00:55:35

GRIFFIN
Member
From: DURHAM
Registered: 2019-03-16
Posts: 111

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Hi March Hare and all,
My opinion is that if I can do in myself, I will do it myself. Although I must say that at the moment I have a local garage and a mobile mechanic that I would trust. In the past it has not always been that way and many times I have entrusted work to so called tradesmen and had to rectify the job myself.
Just to address the elephant in the room here though, does anyone else think that if the belt was that tight, it may be stretched and worn enough to ask them to replace it?

Cheers, Griff.


If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same

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#17 2021-02-01 13:41:31

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 589

Re: Cambelt whine after change

GRIFFIN wrote:

Just to address the elephant in the room here though, does anyone else think that if the belt was that tight, it may be stretched and worn enough to ask them to replace it?

Cheers, Griff.

I was wondering this myself.  The uncomfortable fact is that we can only guess.

There must be a point where overtightening would cause damage/weakening, but we have no way of knowing where that point is, or if it was exceeded. 

If possible I would try to get them to replace it.

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#18 2021-02-01 17:27:28

March Hare
Member
Registered: 2021-01-25
Posts: 11

Re: Cambelt whine after change

Yes, I have also wondered about this.

I think it's too late to ask for it to be replaced now. But they'll remember me, and know I'll be back if anything crops up in the next year or two. They also know I know several other customers of theirs.

I did about 70 miles with it over tight, which is not too bad. I'm resigned to not letting it get to a high mileage, if the rest of the van justifies it in another 25 or 30 thousand miles I'll replace it again, as I'm more concerned with wear to the water pump and tensioner bearings than the belt itself being damaged.

I will be keeping a close ear on that area.

That said, she runs really beautifully now, happier than ever, so maybe a pre-stretch is good? Like a guitar string!

And yes I'll stop being lazy and do the work myself. Cheaper, usually quicker, sometimes better. Wetter. Colder.

Brakes next, in the spring. Joy.

Last edited by March Hare (2021-02-01 17:41:43)

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