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#1 2018-04-24 06:26:19

CrlyWrly
Member
From: Tyne & Wear
Registered: 2018-04-15
Posts: 10
Website

Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

Please see the Topic I started in 1996-2006 Vans > Camper Conversions:

Camper Conversions» DVLA Clarifies Motor Home minimum cooking facilities: one ring not two

Best wishes,

Liz


Fiat Scudo 2006 Campervan
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#2 2019-11-12 11:36:20

Oldboy
Member
Registered: 2019-11-08
Posts: 5

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

Hi Liz

Thanks for your tenacity digging out whats required as a minimum when converting a van to a camper, well done! I'm just starting out on a simple camper conversion, and will only need to boil a kettle within the van, preferring to cook outside when on site. As an aside when looking for a van I noticed that several professional vans had one one ring from new, now I see the reason why!!!
Mick

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#3 2019-11-12 16:26:55

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 252

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

Doubt if it makes a lot of difference now that they are adopting a new policy of not re-registering
see https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/foru … php?id=829

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#4 2019-11-12 21:23:06

CrlyWrly
Member
From: Tyne & Wear
Registered: 2018-04-15
Posts: 10
Website

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

Thank you for that update tee_cee. What a mess the DVLA has got itself into with the revised guidance!

This seems to be the nub of it - in a DVLA response to an FOI request:

"Whilst the internal specifications of a vehicle which has been converted as a 'Motor caravan' are
easily defined, when describing the external appearance DVLA applies a 'reasonableness test' which
is based on how someone would describe the vehicle in traffic or if parked on the road i.e. if you saw
a Ford Transit with a window for example would you describe it as a 'van' or a 'motor caravan'? 
As a result DVLA has reviewed the use of the body type descriptor ‘motor caravan’ in conjunction
with the Police to ensure it accurately describes vehicles externally. The Police fully support the
‘reasonableness test’ and are of the opinion that if a vehicle is not first registered as a motor caravan
or does not have a custom coach built body, it should not be described as a ‘motor caravan’. This
means that all goods vehicles fitted with basic living facilities should be described externally as panel
van, van with side windows or other relevant body type description.
"

See Annex A of DVLA reply to FOI Request from M Roach

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/ … to_address

This Petition to Parliament might be reactivated after the General Election or a new one might be needed:

Ask DVLA and DfT to publish up to date motor caravan V5 guidance.

Since early May 2019 DVLA have been rejecting V5 reclassification requests for vehicles being converted to motor caravans. The majority of these rejections have met the published guidance - https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati … -motorhome

DVLA are rejecting reclassification requests because the vehicle "does not look like a motor caravan" but are unable to give any indicators or criteria as to what might satisfy their (new and unpublished) policy. Drivers now violate legal advice given by DVLA on the above mentioned website. We ask that DVLA continue to reclassify according to current advice, or update their specifications and criteria accordingly. It is absurd that national policy has changed, but advice available has not.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/267623

(There is also a petition on ChangeORG and there might be others elsewhere but I really do not see the point of those sorts of petitions when, if you get the numbers, Parliament has to respond and then has to debate a direct petition.)


Fiat Scudo 2006 Campervan
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#5 2019-11-12 22:34:58

Anchor1979
Member
From: Congleton, Cheshire
Registered: 2016-04-02
Posts: 84
Website

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

DVLA have already released a list of standard external features that they want to see in order to change the classification. See the link below:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati … t-features

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#6 2019-11-12 23:32:34

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 727

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

Anchor1979 wrote:

DVLA have already released a list of standard external features that they want to see in order to change the classification. See the link below:

https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati … t-features

I know Bad News travels faster than Good............
But even with these "New defined (Rather ambiguous) Guide lines ....
I've yet to Hear of or see evidence of ONE Vehicle that has gone through the process on current rulings (It's all refusal) and been reclassified..... (A Panel Van conversion Not a plastic fantastic Caravan screwed on the back of a chassis Cab)

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#7 2019-11-13 09:38:49

Anchor1979
Member
From: Congleton, Cheshire
Registered: 2016-04-02
Posts: 84
Website

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

I'm currently in the process of converting my LWB High Roof Expert into a camper, but to be honest I won't be bothering even trying to get the V5 changed. Mainly because I don't won't to have to put graphics down the side etc. just to be able to get it changed, and like most people who own or even use vans the different speed limits don't usually get followed.

I suppose they have now made it very difficult for self built camper conversions to be updated on the V5. To me it appears that the people who make these decisions at DVLA etc don't really know or understand the self build market and therefore have a very limited concept of what a motor caravan is or even can be.

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#8 2019-11-13 10:51:15

Graydog
Member
Registered: 2018-12-26
Posts: 19

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

These new rules are exactly why I have gone for a Day van with an emergency bed facility, I've built a camping box with cooker ring 12v cool box and storage for cups plates and water.
I know it's not what everyone wants but it suits me and takes very little effort to remove and install and means I can still use it as a full size van.

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#9 2019-11-13 11:18:07

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 727

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

Anchor1979 wrote:

I'm currently in the process of converting my LWB High Roof Expert into a camper, but to be honest I won't be bothering even trying to get the V5 changed. Mainly because I don't won't to have to put graphics down the side etc. just to be able to get it changed, and like most people who own or even use vans the different speed limits don't usually get followed.

I suppose they have now made it very difficult for self built camper conversions to be updated on the V5. To me it appears that the people who make these decisions at DVLA etc don't really know or understand the self build market and therefore have a very limited concept of what a motor caravan is or even can be.

I whole hartedly agree with what your saying and as usual as Gov's do Carpet bomb to solve a Small perceived problem..... (How far is a Government prepared to go to protect You......... From yourself)

I have on quite a few occassions in the past made some very rudimentary efforts From an air bed thrown in back to a semi permanent structure............(cars, car derived vans and transit sized types)
I have No problem with the dual-purpose vehicle being kept as its origonal designation...........

However like you I don't want "in your face graphics" (Though I seem to have ended up with some) Nor am I looking to have to have a hightop (Can't get in several super store car parks) Even if I have a roof box fitted currently and can have that effect............

I have of late (couple years) had an inkling towards another van...............
If I decide to invest in another vehicle it makes sence for me to have it declared as a "Motor Caravan"...........
1. As that is it's sole primary use ......to allow me to have a mobile base (House)..........
2.Not with-standing any benifits a "Motor-Caravan" attains (Speed limit are not really an issue unless your behind me) But insurance is.........
I point blank refuse to invest in a Camper at say £20,000 and insurance values it as a van at £8,000...... And BTW in the past my restrictions on Comercial vehicles were Many dependant on where and what they were carrying ETC ...........
But one kept poping up ....The jist being....."That should a vehicle fire occur within the vehicle because of Cooking ETC it would not be covered under that policy"
On getting my current van 4 or 5yrs ago I had to give my bussiness to a company I'd never dealt with before as it was obviously a policy for a "Motor-home/Caravan which my then insurers couldn't provide as it would have meant a van with Modifications and an agreed value (better policy and Much more cost effective as a Motor home)
The list goes on...............

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#10 2019-11-13 12:43:44

tee_cee
Member
Registered: 2016-03-18
Posts: 252

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

Can't help feeling that it's a deliberate policy, simply to reduce workload.
On the other other hand maybe they are looking at more regulation eg  New Zealand self containment certification

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#11 2019-11-13 15:40:15

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 404

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

tee_cee wrote:

On the other other hand maybe they are looking at more regulation eg  New Zealand self containment certification

I too suspect that this is the case.  Some may consider that cynical but I would counter with my direct personal experience of both attitudes to camper vans and the states endless drive for increasing regulation, pressure to conformity and the comodifination of all aspects of our lives.

Unfortunately, it appears that the loudest social media "influencers" consider these recent changes to be an isolated minor inconvenience.  On questioning these opinions it seems they are based on nothing but wishful thinking and ignorance of the recent history of vehicle dwelling in the UK.

I sincerely hope I am wrong and one of the most liberating and refwarding ways to travel is still available to people in coming decades.  However, I think we are on a slippery slope towards designated park-ups only and increasing regulation and restrictions.

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#12 2019-11-14 00:30:53

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 727

Re: Minimum Cooking Facilities - Legislation and Guidance

OAT wrote:
tee_cee wrote:

On the other other hand maybe they are looking at more regulation eg  New Zealand self containment certification

I too suspect that this is the case.  Some may consider that cynical but I would counter with my direct personal experience of both attitudes to camper vans and the states endless drive for increasing regulation, pressure to conformity and the comodifination of all aspects of our lives.

Unfortunately, it appears that the loudest social media "influencers" consider these recent changes to be an isolated minor inconvenience.  On questioning these opinions it seems they are based on nothing but wishful thinking and ignorance of the recent history of vehicle dwelling in the UK.

I sincerely hope I am wrong and one of the most liberating and refwarding ways to travel is still available to people in coming decades.  However, I think we are on a slippery slope towards designated park-ups only and increasing regulation and restrictions.

I am tending to agree with you both on this point........... OAT  I would be more inclined Not to consider your thoughts as cynical but Realistic as lessons from history .......


I met a retired chap (Best non-insulting discription I could think of) at the check-in at a Campsite on the outskirts of Oban around 15+ years ago ........ His 1981/2 IIRC BMW R80 G/S caught my attention and We got to talking as you do And he described to me how he was working the Season as a warden ..  Living on site had sold his car And the bike was his sole transport ...........
All because he'd spent about a month in New Zealand during the (UK) previous winter and all this was a means to return and get/buy/hire a motorcycle and go full on for their {NZ} Summer Touring ...........
But now Here I am all these years Later and it's my turn (To be the fudy dudy)..........

What with my own health issues and my Partners Non Hodgkins.............It might just be our turn (No1. shortage and I can do nothing about it Is Time)...........

Tee_cee....I'd never heard of this Self Containment Certification before...............
But discovered it (did a little digging) when I was researching........
The alleged phenomenon .......That you can get a Campervan hire ONE WAY from Christchurch to Auckland for as little as $1 or $0 per day + fuel ...............

Apparently every one Heads South and effectivly Your returning the Van to supplement the Shortage and their costs of having it returned to base ..........
(All Iv'e found So far have fairly short time constraints where Touring is concerned)

Touring musts {NZ} I came across The  make sure the Camper you get (Buy or hire) has a Self Containment Certification..............
(Sorry Long way for a shortcut)...........

Yes.... Realistically you both may be on to something on the more regulation front especially with all the enviromental movement as a propaganda smokescreen ..........
(Some may consider that statement as cynical)

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