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#1 2019-12-16 09:39:17

Rabnudj
Member
Registered: 2019-05-04
Posts: 18

Serious cold starting issues

Hi ,

I,m hoping somebody can help with this fault

My van is a 1.9D  04 plate dispatch

If the night temp gets to about 4 degrees the van starts on the button - perfect!  smile

If the night temp is 2 degrees or less, I'm in trouble!  it simply cranks and cranks with no sign of life for up to two minutes, then suddenly without hesitation it runs.



Things i have done/checked...

*Glow plugs replaced
*Voltage across plugs during heating is 11.0 Volts (measured directly from plug to block)
*Voltage across plugs during cracking is 8.5 Volts
*I own my own scanner - no faults
*During cranking the engine is turning at a good speed, so battery is in good shape

any thoughts or suggestions would be very welcome

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#2 2019-12-16 10:42:39

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 1,463

Re: Serious cold starting issues

Dont start it when the light goes out wait till you hear the relay click

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#3 2019-12-16 10:43:43

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 1,463

Re: Serious cold starting issues

Also have a read at this and link in last post


https://dispatchexpertscudo.org.uk/foru … php?id=933

Last edited by Casper (2019-12-16 10:43:59)

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#4 2019-12-16 13:22:52

Rabnudj
Member
Registered: 2019-05-04
Posts: 18

Re: Serious cold starting issues

thank you for speedy reply - I had read the previous post- However, since i get a good voltage to the glow plugs ,I assume the entire relay system is working just fine. I will try your trick of waiting a long time for the pugs to really cook. obviously i will need to wait for another cold snap for this to be tested - van started on turn of key this mild morning

QUESTION: why does a small temp drop from 4 Celsius to 2 Celsius have such a profound impact?  (see original post)

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#5 2019-12-16 13:29:42

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 1,463

Re: Serious cold starting issues

Rabnudj wrote:

QUESTION: why does a small temp drop from 4 Celsius to 2 Celsius have such a profound impact?  (see original post)

Dono mate. Mine is the exact same motor and i was starting fine when the light went out during the summer months but as soon as it started to get cold it was a non starter.

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#6 2019-12-17 18:25:02

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 764

Re: Serious cold starting issues

I've had an issue in the past where I thought it was temp related but (may be both) was more to do with time not running (poor description)..............
The longer a diesel sits not running the colder the core temp can become and a lower ambiant temp can assist in speeding this process up............

Plus  with age the harder more brittle less flexible the rubber parts on the engine can and do become..........
This nonsense I'm talking is relating to the return diesel pipes .........
As they age they split so need replacing.........
but can also prior to spliting become hard and dont grip  the little barb that well or already have small cracks within the rubber that we don't see (as there is No line pressure) because of
1. Where on engine the injectors are and we don't really see the small telltail signs of a leak if really any worth talking about.........
2. Having that cotten type material over rubber pipe can mimic a ragged end or mask/hide a multitude of sins and we think OK because of it............

If the spill/return pipes are not sealing properly while sitting it could be allowing air into the system and over night slowly but surely it's allowing air into and diesel to run back out pump and create an air pocket..........
You come along in morning and have to pump air out of system before it will fire..........
Two fold issue = Cold and lack of Fuel............
Now that it's started and because of such a very small ingress of air plus residual heat within mass of engine it'll be on the button all day but a Bi*** in the morning...........

One thing to try in the morning if you can be Ar*** is pump the fuel primer/bulb thingy as though youv'e just done the filter ..........
Give it a good push of fuel into pump and see if with preheat it starts any better..........
But also obviously check out your glow plug circuit is working ok ..........

One thing that can help prevent this sort of thing is a one way check valve in pump feed pipe to prevent diesel being able to back out of pump creating an air pocket.........
Obviously if there is a breach in system it needs repairing/dealing with ............
On the pressure side it should be easily found and dealt with.....

On spill/return pipes although have No pressure so not so easy to diagnose but still need to prevent air ingress under capillary action..........

I hope this makes some sense and I have a suspision I may be suffering again myself ............ (As van sits for many days between use and ETC)

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#7 2019-12-20 08:06:04

Rabnudj
Member
Registered: 2019-05-04
Posts: 18

Re: Serious cold starting issues

Casper wrote:

Dont start it when the light goes out wait till you hear the relay click



Update:

I've only had one frosty morning to try these ideas out. Previously (for many winters) i would start a few seconds after heater light goes out. But as suggested i waited 30 seconds before crank. amazingly it started right up!  if this is my fix, i will be very happy....  I need a few more frosty mornings to confirm result. Currently raining hard this morning here in Kent.

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#8 2019-12-20 19:17:04

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 1,463

Re: Serious cold starting issues

Glad yer sorted ish. I also put new glow plugs in but TBH it never helped matters much as the ones i took out were not to bad.

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#9 2020-01-12 18:03:33

RedSquirrel
Member
Registered: 2020-01-12
Posts: 13

Re: Serious cold starting issues

A problem I have is air getting in somewhere, so I have to pump the priming bulb until it feels solid, then it starts instantly,. Something else I use is “Fuel Set” It is something that causes any water in the tank to go into solution, and it breaks down any diesel bugs. After using this for a year or so, it went from coughing and spluttering at startup to a smooth idle.It’s mixing rate is 4000:1, so 15 to 20ml per tank full is enough. For a bit of credibility, some of the Deltic owners use it. To save filter cleaning so often, they are a real pain to clean.

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#10 2020-01-18 12:51:31

Rabnudj
Member
Registered: 2019-05-04
Posts: 18

Re: Serious cold starting issues

Update: (not good)


so, the cold has returned to Kent...   and my van would not start at all today. 

Things is have checked - 

Glow plugs(GP)..  I actually 'hot wired' the GP directly to the battery with jump leads, so i could totally rule out supply issues - The glow plugs have been replaced.

Fuel: I cracked open the fuel line to number one injector, made sure the joint was properly opened and there is NO fuel being delivered to injector!

The manual fuel primer pump required only two presses to become firm

know facts...   

Lack of fuel is not related to time , i can leave van all weekend and it will start on the button
Lack of fuel is 100% linked to the temperature, as soon as the temp drops, the engine becomes harder to start and when frosty, it wont start at all.

I am at a loss as to why lower temps result in fuelling issues, any thoughts would be very welcome!

James

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#11 2020-01-18 22:57:53

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 428

Re: Serious cold starting issues

Is the primer a stronger pump than the mechanical one does anyone know? 
Wondering why the pump won't deliver but hand priming will.

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#12 2020-01-18 23:15:53

Casper
Member
From: East Lothian
Registered: 2015-12-20
Posts: 1,463

Re: Serious cold starting issues

Only thing i can think of is fuel line from filter to pump has a leak or split or, do these vans have a water in fuel light. When left in cold the water is blocking the injectors as ice. Extreme but it seems all other avenues have been reached. How is all the fuel return pipes James? All connected and looking tight?

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#13 2020-01-19 21:09:12

Rabnudj
Member
Registered: 2019-05-04
Posts: 18

Re: Serious cold starting issues

open?id=1s0Ft2er68GIEcnVMVJyaW_W7XSYfHUbb

SO relived - problem solved.

The fuel cut-off solenoid was sticking in the off position , but only when cold, massive curve ball!

I could either remove entire pump or cut away the metal casing to access the solenoid in situ , cutting is messy, but far easier! OK for an older vehicle.

Hopefully image will upload
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1s3ULG … oan1VLJXeh - or just view here

Thanks for your suggestions and input

James

Last edited by Rabnudj (2020-01-19 22:34:59)

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#14 2020-01-19 21:45:44

Rabnudj
Member
Registered: 2019-05-04
Posts: 18

Re: Serious cold starting issues

view?usp=drivesdk

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#15 2020-01-19 23:49:45

vaz2121
Member
From: SW. Scotland
Registered: 2015-08-31
Posts: 764

Re: Serious cold starting issues

OAT wrote:

Is the primer a stronger pump than the mechanical one does anyone know? 
Wondering why the pump won't deliver but hand priming will.


I dout very much that it is ..............
My reasoning behind it is just as it's called/suggested...........
" Hand Primer"  and is a pre cursor to cranking it over for ever...........


Or crack open Number one injector a start cranking............

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