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#26 2020-08-01 12:50:57

JohnDragonMan
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From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 84
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Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

yep copper grease will stop it happening in the future. something ive done before and it always pays off in the future


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: There's always user serviceable parts inside. Molten metal "hot". In my defence, i was left unsupervised. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My Crazy Mk2 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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#27 2020-08-01 19:48:38

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

OK, thanks - definitely copper grease. Also, if you need any more info about the aux belt, let me know. Get van back on Mon for now. Can have a look if you need to know anything else.


Fiat Scudo 2004 (54) 2.0 Jtd Dynamic Van

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#28 2020-08-01 21:48:20

JohnDragonMan
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From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 84
Website

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

i had a good long look on the internet and a belt length of 1740mm is the only size that fits all air conditioned types and makes of this van with the HDI engine. its got to be the right one.

i have ordered a Gates belt and cant wait to get it on and gassed up! comes on monday big_smile


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: There's always user serviceable parts inside. Molten metal "hot". In my defence, i was left unsupervised. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My Crazy Mk2 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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#29 2020-08-02 13:04:03

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

1740 is definitely right for HDIs/JTDs with a/c. Good luck with it, please let me know how icy it is in your van. Give me some inspiration.

Will be back with news of my repair too.


Fiat Scudo 2004 (54) 2.0 Jtd Dynamic Van

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#30 2020-08-04 15:54:34

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

Well, just had some great news. Phoned garage today to ask when I should pick van up. Was told that they had taken the drier and two pipes attached out of van. When they got them on bench, they managed to work on the two drier pipe nuts and got them off - undamaged.

So upshot is I don't have to have the hassle of sending the pipes off to Essex for them to make new pipe ends - saving me around £200. They're going to put it all back together (already vacuumed system and renewed PAG oil in compressor) with new drier and vacuum test. May need new condenser, but they haven't established if it's ok or not yet.

Did impress on them to put copper grease on the nut threads. So may have a/c very soon - just in time for hot weather coming Friday.

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-04 15:55:37)


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#31 2020-08-04 22:17:32

JohnDragonMan
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From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 84
Website

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

that is great news. you may be getting it working before me!  i visited the taxi place today but they have cleared out quite a few of the vans.. pretty much all the ones with aircon. good thing they managed to get them pipes free it seems.

well if you need a 6pk1740 belt, let me know. sadly it didnt fit my van, its really slack. i have measured it with a bit of old speaker wire and it turns out the belt needs to be 1600mm long. so i have ordered that and should get it on the 6th as nowhere local to me has one that size or close to.

soon...  soon.. sigh.


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: There's always user serviceable parts inside. Molten metal "hot". In my defence, i was left unsupervised. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My Crazy Mk2 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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#32 2020-08-04 22:47:19

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

Thanks for visiting the taxi breaker. Yes, they saved me aggro and around £200, so chuffed.

I don't understand about the belt. We both have the same engines with a/c - so should be a 1740 belt. That's what I have fitted and the Gates catalogue says 1740 for both Scudo and Dispatch with a/c. Non a/c 2.0s need 1470mm belts (see link below). Unless you have a non-standard pulley on compressor or something. Very strange.

Yes, hope to have a/c before Fri when it warms up. Watch this space!

https://www.gatesautocat.com/search-res … rce=result

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-04 22:51:30)


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#33 2020-08-05 12:36:45

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

Need a bit of info if poss, please John. Thought it was going too well. Put the two pipes back in no problem. Now they've found another pipe that has rubbed through and leaking on the rubber section where it passes over the gearbox.

Can only be pipe number 1 in you diagram in earlier post. Do you know what the part number is for this pipe?

Getting van back today and looking to send that pipe off to Essex to get a new rubber section crimped in. Apparently Fiat still make them but no UK stock so would have to wait for part to come to UK. Biggest problem is price - £360 for a pipe!!!!

So new from Fiat is out - repair pipe with Essex co most likely. But if I had the part no. someone may have a cheap new one sitting on a shelf somewhere. Fiat Eper system not working, so can't get part no. myself.


Fiat Scudo 2004 (54) 2.0 Jtd Dynamic Van

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#34 2020-08-05 14:07:26

JohnDragonMan
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From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 84
Website

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

is it the thicker or thinner pipe? on mine the thicker pipe has rubbed a bit on the boost pipe on the previous vehicle. I'll have a look and see if that taxi place has one. it's only around the corner from where I work and would not cost much at all to get a replacement and post it to you.

just need to know for sure if it's the high pressure (thinner pipe) or low pressure return ( thicker ) pipe.


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: There's always user serviceable parts inside. Molten metal "hot". In my defence, i was left unsupervised. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My Crazy Mk2 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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#35 2020-08-05 22:09:31

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

Sorry I was wrong - misunderstood what garage told me. It's actually pipe number 2 on diagram. The long one.

Thanks for your really kind offer to visit taxi breakers, but I have parceled up the pipe and sent it off to Bonair to sort out. Renewing the middle rubber section that's holed should be easy and less expensive than the repair I thought they had to do originally.

Strangely the middle rubber section in pipe number 2 in your diagram seems to have a reinforced section to stop chafing. There aren't any such reinforcements on my rubber sections.

This is turning into a long saga!

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-05 22:12:02)


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#36 2020-08-05 23:26:29

JohnDragonMan
Member
From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 84
Website

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

well i went to the taxi place and spent a good few hours looking through everything and more in the back. sadly every one had chafed through right where it rubs on the engine mount. every single one! i must have been really lucky with mine! though i do have that bit where it rubbed on the boost hose.. still not sure if it will hold pressure well.

also managed to find out that vehicles with aircon have a different crank pulley. its kinda like a dual mass flywheel the way it works!  makes me wonder if thats why the belt would not fit.
that said i have managed to get one and some time in the afternoon tomorrow, i will be swapping it out to see if the 1740 belt fits.
the original non AC pulley is a solid type with a thin band of rubber to help smooth out any roughness.

well glad to hear the pipes been sent to the pros. me, im a cheap ass so i would have fixed it using.. i dont know, compression joints or something lmao! its a return pipe so the pressure is not that high (but it is high enough)


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: There's always user serviceable parts inside. Molten metal "hot". In my defence, i was left unsupervised. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My Crazy Mk2 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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#37 2020-08-06 14:49:36

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

Thanks for looking for me. Sounds like bad design. Glad you solved the mystery of you belt - makes sense now.

Only thing I worry about now is that the system has been vacuumed for 3 hours and new drier fitted and all put back together. Then they found the hole. So now the system is open again at several points (drier, evaporator and compressor) because the pipe is removed. System is likely to be open for up to 10 days while pipe repaired (though I did bit of tape on drier threads/port) and get van back to garage. Have we wasted our time vacuuning if the system will be unsealed for this time. Will the drier be sucking in moisture from atmosphere and need renewing again?

Obviously after all this effort I want it to be right, so wonder if I need to be vacuuming and doing new drier again to make sure it's 100 per cent. Or am I worrying unnecessaily?

EDIT>>>>      Was on the phone to the hose repair people and asked them about system being open for approx a week with new drier installed. He said will ruin it. OK to be open for a few hours, but days and the silica in the drier will absorb lots of ambient moisture. Suppose that's it's job to absorb system moisture. If it's open to the atmosphere it will keep absorbing moisture until it's saturated.

Oh well, £26 for another new drier from Amazon.    sad

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-06 21:08:48)


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#38 2020-08-06 21:33:49

OAT
Member
From: Borders/Dales
Registered: 2017-01-03
Posts: 537

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

woodbine wrote:

Oh well, £26 for another new drier from Amazon.    sad

I am probably not understanding something here but can't the silica be dried?

I know many people use it in vans, caravans, etc, in the mistaken belief that it will cut down condensation.  But once saturated, they dry it out and use again.

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#39 2020-08-06 22:23:34

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

OAT wrote:
woodbine wrote:

Oh well, £26 for another new drier from Amazon.    sad

I am probably not understanding something here but can't the silica be dried?

I know many people use it in vans, caravans, etc, in the mistaken belief that it will cut down condensation.  But once saturated, they dry it out and use again.

Well I suppose it's possible. But it's enclosed in a tin can. Not sure how it would be dried, and if it's sealed into the system without being dried, then that moisture is trapped in the system and also the drier can't remove any other moisture from system.

The chap at Bonair said it's always best to leave the caps on the new drier until just before you fit it. Best to fit drier last so rest of system is sealed when it goes on. Basically don't want a drier left open to the atmosphere which has unlimited moisture content. As he wasn't selling me a new drier he had nothing to gain by exaggerating.

I dunno is the real answer. I decided not to take the risk of spoiling the ship....................... so shelled out for another. Hey-ho. Maybe I'm being OCD?

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-06 22:27:34)


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#40 2020-08-08 04:02:00

JohnDragonMan
Member
From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 84
Website

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

got a HUGE update.

i now have working air conditioning!

a 6PK1640 belt is needed

the gassing up side went perfectly well. the system took around 900 grams of R134A (looking online its capacity is 950 grams - best add a small bit more)

the coolant fan manipulation is a pain in the ass. i was hoping one of the 2 relays the fan uses would have a signal wire of 12V and then just grounded. sadly none of the relay pins make a continuity to ground. so that make things a bit more difficult.
i ended up piggy backing a soldered connection on the 2 thick fan wires coming out of one of the fan relays to add a 3rd relay that the 4 pin pressure switch could then tell to activate.

however all of it has paid off. today was the hottest day, and i got the AC working for it. what a test it had and it worked perfectly.

Welcome to coolsville.


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: There's always user serviceable parts inside. Molten metal "hot". In my defence, i was left unsupervised. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My Crazy Mk2 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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#41 2020-08-08 14:58:04

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

Cool, man!! That's great news, just in time for the heat - though unsure if your van is mobile at present. If not, just sit on the drive with a/c on and enjoy. Poss with a cold one after all your hard work. Have you measured temp at the middle vents to see how well it's cooling?

Hopefully I'll be getting the hose back next week then re-intsall and gas. Fingers crossed no more leaks.

A question. I learnt the other day that the rad fan is suppose to come on with the a/c. Should it come on same time as a/c turned on, or later when things get hot and maybe turn fan on and off with a stat control? Just so I know what to expect. I can't say I've ever heard my rad fan come on in my van. Some car's fans are on and off all the time. But then, my temp gauge never really goes above a third of the way so never gets above low end of normal. Cooling system must be doing a really good job.


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#42 2020-08-08 15:02:56

woodbine
Member
From: Bristol, UK
Registered: 2018-11-01
Posts: 77

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

Whilst we're on about a/c; again - saw a really interesting Youtube vid from Eric The Car Guy (US). Was saying that biggest and easiest improvement on a/c performance was to clean the condenser fins with condenser cleaner. Thinking about it - makes sense. My van's condenser has been in the firing line for 16 years, so must be choked with dead insects and all sorts of crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_em9lm69HQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU_A4wNuHXI

https://www.airconspares.com/easyclean- … gIibvD_BwE


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#43 2020-08-08 21:55:15

JohnDragonMan
Member
From: Derby, East Midlands, UK
Registered: 2020-06-02
Posts: 84
Website

Re: Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

ahh yes i have been using the van since last monday to go to work in. however i have only just got the AC working as i had to go out and dry different belt sizes to find the right size.

so the radiator fan automatically turns on and off by its self. when the temperature of the condenser gets really hot, the refrigerant expands. when it expands the system pressure goes up and the 4 pin pressure switch switches 2 pins on that connect to one of the fan relays. it works really well because the fan wont turn on if the vehicle is moving fast enough to push air through the radiator pack but as soon as you stop the fan will automatically come on.

yes i can vouch for the condenser cleaning spray tin foam stuff. i have used it before and it works very impressively well. not just for AC radiators but for all types of radiator, coolant or intercooler!


- JohnDragonMan
Notice: I have the tendency to void warranties, blow fuses, cause fires, and other fun stuff.
Words of wisdom: There's always user serviceable parts inside. Molten metal "hot". In my defence, i was left unsupervised. "Oh that shouldn't have happened".
My Crazy Mk2 2005 Dispatch Camper Project big_smile

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