Air Conditioning! retro fitting, questions, and tips

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-01 12:50:57

yep copper grease will stop it happening in the future. something ive done before and it always pays off in the future

woodbine · 2020-08-01 19:48:38

OK, thanks - definitely copper grease. Also, if you need any more info about the aux belt, let me know. Get van back on Mon for now. Can have a look if you need to know anything else.

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-01 21:48:20

i had a good long look on the internet and a belt length of 1740mm is the only size that fits all air conditioned types and makes of this van with the HDI engine. its got to be the right one.

i have ordered a Gates belt and cant wait to get it on and gassed up! comes on monday big_smile

woodbine · 2020-08-02 13:04:03

1740 is definitely right for HDIs/JTDs with a/c. Good luck with it, please let me know how icy it is in your van. Give me some inspiration.

Will be back with news of my repair too.

woodbine · 2020-08-04 15:54:34

Well, just had some great news. Phoned garage today to ask when I should pick van up. Was told that they had taken the drier and two pipes attached out of van. When they got them on bench, they managed to work on the two drier pipe nuts and got them off - undamaged.

So upshot is I don't have to have the hassle of sending the pipes off to Essex for them to make new pipe ends - saving me around £200. They're going to put it all back together (already vacuumed system and renewed PAG oil in compressor) with new drier and vacuum test. May need new condenser, but they haven't established if it's ok or not yet.

Did impress on them to put copper grease on the nut threads. So may have a/c very soon - just in time for hot weather coming Friday.

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-04 15:55:37)

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-04 22:17:32

that is great news. you may be getting it working before me! i visited the taxi place today but they have cleared out quite a few of the vans.. pretty much all the ones with aircon. good thing they managed to get them pipes free it seems.

well if you need a 6pk1740 belt, let me know. sadly it didnt fit my van, its really slack. i have measured it with a bit of old speaker wire and it turns out the belt needs to be 1600mm long. so i have ordered that and should get it on the 6th as nowhere local to me has one that size or close to.

soon... soon.. sigh.

woodbine · 2020-08-04 22:47:19

Thanks for visiting the taxi breaker. Yes, they saved me aggro and around £200, so chuffed.

I don't understand about the belt. We both have the same engines with a/c - so should be a 1740 belt. That's what I have fitted and the Gates catalogue says 1740 for both Scudo and Dispatch with a/c. Non a/c 2.0s need 1470mm belts (see link below). Unless you have a non-standard pulley on compressor or something. Very strange.

Yes, hope to have a/c before Fri when it warms up. Watch this space!

https://www.gatesautocat.com/search-res … rce=result

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-04 22:51:30)

woodbine · 2020-08-05 12:36:45

Need a bit of info if poss, please John. Thought it was going too well. Put the two pipes back in no problem. Now they've found another pipe that has rubbed through and leaking on the rubber section where it passes over the gearbox.

Can only be pipe number 1 in you diagram in earlier post. Do you know what the part number is for this pipe?

Getting van back today and looking to send that pipe off to Essex to get a new rubber section crimped in. Apparently Fiat still make them but no UK stock so would have to wait for part to come to UK. Biggest problem is price - £360 for a pipe!!!!

So new from Fiat is out - repair pipe with Essex co most likely. But if I had the part no. someone may have a cheap new one sitting on a shelf somewhere. Fiat Eper system not working, so can't get part no. myself.

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-05 14:07:26

is it the thicker or thinner pipe? on mine the thicker pipe has rubbed a bit on the boost pipe on the previous vehicle. I'll have a look and see if that taxi place has one. it's only around the corner from where I work and would not cost much at all to get a replacement and post it to you.

just need to know for sure if it's the high pressure (thinner pipe) or low pressure return ( thicker ) pipe.

woodbine · 2020-08-05 22:09:31

Sorry I was wrong - misunderstood what garage told me. It's actually pipe number 2 on diagram. The long one.

Thanks for your really kind offer to visit taxi breakers, but I have parceled up the pipe and sent it off to Bonair to sort out. Renewing the middle rubber section that's holed should be easy and less expensive than the repair I thought they had to do originally.

Strangely the middle rubber section in pipe number 2 in your diagram seems to have a reinforced section to stop chafing. There aren't any such reinforcements on my rubber sections.

This is turning into a long saga!

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-05 22:12:02)

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-05 23:26:29

well i went to the taxi place and spent a good few hours looking through everything and more in the back. sadly every one had chafed through right where it rubs on the engine mount. every single one! i must have been really lucky with mine! though i do have that bit where it rubbed on the boost hose.. still not sure if it will hold pressure well.

also managed to find out that vehicles with aircon have a different crank pulley. its kinda like a dual mass flywheel the way it works! makes me wonder if thats why the belt would not fit.
that said i have managed to get one and some time in the afternoon tomorrow, i will be swapping it out to see if the 1740 belt fits.
the original non AC pulley is a solid type with a thin band of rubber to help smooth out any roughness.

well glad to hear the pipes been sent to the pros. me, im a cheap ass so i would have fixed it using.. i dont know, compression joints or something lmao! its a return pipe so the pressure is not that high (but it is high enough)

woodbine · 2020-08-06 14:49:36

Thanks for looking for me. Sounds like bad design. Glad you solved the mystery of you belt - makes sense now.

Only thing I worry about now is that the system has been vacuumed for 3 hours and new drier fitted and all put back together. Then they found the hole. So now the system is open again at several points (drier, evaporator and compressor) because the pipe is removed. System is likely to be open for up to 10 days while pipe repaired (though I did bit of tape on drier threads/port) and get van back to garage. Have we wasted our time vacuuning if the system will be unsealed for this time. Will the drier be sucking in moisture from atmosphere and need renewing again?

Obviously after all this effort I want it to be right, so wonder if I need to be vacuuming and doing new drier again to make sure it's 100 per cent. Or am I worrying unnecessaily?

EDIT>>>> Was on the phone to the hose repair people and asked them about system being open for approx a week with new drier installed. He said will ruin it. OK to be open for a few hours, but days and the silica in the drier will absorb lots of ambient moisture. Suppose that's it's job to absorb system moisture. If it's open to the atmosphere it will keep absorbing moisture until it's saturated.

Oh well, £26 for another new drier from Amazon. sad

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-06 21:08:48)

OAT · 2020-08-06 21:33:49

woodbine wrote:

Oh well, £26 for another new drier from Amazon.

I am probably not understanding something here but can't the silica be dried?

I know many people use it in vans, caravans, etc, in the mistaken belief that it will cut down condensation. But once saturated, they dry it out and use again.

woodbine · 2020-08-06 22:23:34

OAT wrote:

woodbine wrote:
Oh well, £26 for another new drier from Amazon.
I am probably not understanding something here but can't the silica be dried?
I know many people use it in vans, caravans, etc, in the mistaken belief that it will cut down condensation. But once saturated, they dry it out and use again.

Well I suppose it's possible. But it's enclosed in a tin can. Not sure how it would be dried, and if it's sealed into the system without being dried, then that moisture is trapped in the system and also the drier can't remove any other moisture from system.

The chap at Bonair said it's always best to leave the caps on the new drier until just before you fit it. Best to fit drier last so rest of system is sealed when it goes on. Basically don't want a drier left open to the atmosphere which has unlimited moisture content. As he wasn't selling me a new drier he had nothing to gain by exaggerating.

I dunno is the real answer. I decided not to take the risk of spoiling the ship....................... so shelled out for another. Hey-ho. Maybe I'm being OCD?

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-06 22:27:34)

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-08 04:02:00

got a HUGE update.

i now have working air conditioning!

a 6PK1640 belt is needed

the gassing up side went perfectly well. the system took around 900 grams of R134A (looking online its capacity is 950 grams - best add a small bit more)

the coolant fan manipulation is a pain in the ass. i was hoping one of the 2 relays the fan uses would have a signal wire of 12V and then just grounded. sadly none of the relay pins make a continuity to ground. so that make things a bit more difficult.
i ended up piggy backing a soldered connection on the 2 thick fan wires coming out of one of the fan relays to add a 3rd relay that the 4 pin pressure switch could then tell to activate.

however all of it has paid off. today was the hottest day, and i got the AC working for it. what a test it had and it worked perfectly.

Welcome to coolsville.

woodbine · 2020-08-08 14:58:04

Cool, man!! That's great news, just in time for the heat - though unsure if your van is mobile at present. If not, just sit on the drive with a/c on and enjoy. Poss with a cold one after all your hard work. Have you measured temp at the middle vents to see how well it's cooling?

Hopefully I'll be getting the hose back next week then re-intsall and gas. Fingers crossed no more leaks.

A question. I learnt the other day that the rad fan is suppose to come on with the a/c. Should it come on same time as a/c turned on, or later when things get hot and maybe turn fan on and off with a stat control? Just so I know what to expect. I can't say I've ever heard my rad fan come on in my van. Some car's fans are on and off all the time. But then, my temp gauge never really goes above a third of the way so never gets above low end of normal. Cooling system must be doing a really good job.

woodbine · 2020-08-08 15:02:56

Whilst we're on about a/c; again - saw a really interesting Youtube vid from Eric The Car Guy (US). Was saying that biggest and easiest improvement on a/c performance was to clean the condenser fins with condenser cleaner. Thinking about it - makes sense. My van's condenser has been in the firing line for 16 years, so must be choked with dead insects and all sorts of crap.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_em9lm69HQ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XU_A4wNuHXI

https://www.airconspares.com/easyclean- … gIibvD_BwE

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-08 21:55:15

ahh yes i have been using the van since last monday to go to work in. however i have only just got the AC working as i had to go out and dry different belt sizes to find the right size.

so the radiator fan automatically turns on and off by its self. when the temperature of the condenser gets really hot, the refrigerant expands. when it expands the system pressure goes up and the 4 pin pressure switch switches 2 pins on that connect to one of the fan relays. it works really well because the fan wont turn on if the vehicle is moving fast enough to push air through the radiator pack but as soon as you stop the fan will automatically come on.

yes i can vouch for the condenser cleaning spray tin foam stuff. i have used it before and it works very impressively well. not just for AC radiators but for all types of radiator, coolant or intercooler!

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-16 22:42:44

added more info to the first post such as the pollen filter location.

also to update, my aircon seems to work great. however i have noticed that it works more like a climate control. no matter what the ambient air temperature is, the AC always cools to around 15 to 20.C. i am not sure if this is correct. or just the variable displacement compressor combined with the thermal expansion valve automatically setting everything to a good setting. the worst thing ever is when an AC system freezes up as you get no airflow cooling you down but with this it technically should never happen.

i may have a bit of a play with it at some other point in time but for now it is just perfect. i can leave it on and not have to keep constantly turning it off and then back on. it just sits at a nice pleasant (around) 17.c

happy with it! defiantly think it was worth doing.

woodbine · 2020-08-21 17:34:58

Success!!

Just picked my van up from the garage for the second time. First time they found holed/chafed middle rubber section on the longest a/c pipe, so had to have van and hose back to send hose away to be repaired. Hose repair wasn't cheap - Parcel force to company called Bonair in Benfleet, Essex. Repair - new middle rubber section plus supplied all new o ring seals for the whole pipe = £150. C'est la vie!

Drove van all the way across Bristol after collecting it, and it was Baltic in there. Had the fan turned up to half way and had condensation forming on the outside of windows - bottom of screen and door windows. Very effective system - especially as I fitted the same bulkhead as yours when I originally bought the van.

When I parked the van after bringing it home with engine and a/c running, was surprised that the rad fan comes on for 10 secs, off for 10 secs and carries on cycling like that. Phoned garage and they explained that modern cars control the fan according to a/c temp by having low and high speed fan settings. On ours, there is only one speed so no modulation possible, so it controls the condenser cooling by cycling the fan on and off - so all normal. Filling system with refrigerant isn't a cheap hobby these days. One item on bill was 'refrigerant, Pagg oil and detector - £100'. Must be some special stuff - only hope it stays in the system.

At long last, we're both ready for the hot summer weather - but it's gone! Oh well, there's always next year.

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-21 17:39:16)

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-22 00:04:48

yeah mine does not seem to get that cold.. not sure why but its still nice. my rad fan cycles the same as yours. heh that means that i got the electrics right haha. i think when i have the bulkhead in it will make a huge difference to the cooling of the cabin space.

glad its sorted! may this thread remain for future help to others!

woodbine · 2020-08-22 12:47:06

Thanks John. Yes, thread may be useful to anyone with a/c in future. One thing I would advise anyone with one of our vans with a/c is to make sure they protect the middle rubber section of the longest pipe (pipe number 2 in the diagram in the first post of this thread) from chafing through like mine.

What I got the garage to do is get a short length of rubber hose, slit it down the side and wrap it around the rubber hose where it can rub on gearbox. Then secure with couple of cable ties. Not sure if this can be done with battery in place or may need to be removed - I didn't do the work. Anyway, protecting that section of hose will save either £360 for a new complete pipe from Fiat, or £150 to fix the old hose. Plus all the labour and new gas, etc, etc.

Got the garage to fit new Nissens dryer I bought on Amazon for £25 as the system had been open for 10 days so poss ruined the other new one that's just been installed. Bloke from Bonair said he would only recommend having open system for few hours otherwise dryer can absorb too much ambient moisture. For £25 it wasn't worth risking it, so the new dryer got binned and the lastest one I bought went in. With copper grease on all it's 3 threads!

One question, John. In future, if I need to top up the gas is it possible/worth doing DIY? Or not going to save much?

Sorry to hear yours isn't as cold as you hoped. Definitely think bulkhead will improve matters. Maybe little more fettling of system too.

P.S. Van going in Thursday to get sills sorted. Will let you know how I get on. Just antifreeze to change after that, oh and now getting banging/clonking from rear - so maybe new arm bushes. sad

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-22 12:54:43)

JohnDragonMan · 2020-08-22 16:39:09

for topping up you could use a halfords top up kit (its what i used). however it may work out cheaper for a garage to top it up. i had a few old top up kits that at the time was £30 each. now they are £50 each hmm

if you can get cheap top up R134A then its always worth it.

as always, never let the system become so low that theres no pressure left in it. no pressure means normal air can get in.. if that happens then it needs to be vacuumed out again.

woodbine · 2020-08-31 19:32:05

OK, thanks John. Hopefully won't need topping up for a while. Think they reckon that a/c systems lose approx 10% of their refrigerant p.a. Don't know how true this is.

Also need to add a correction. The garage said the middle rubber section of the longest a/c hose chafed through on the gearbox. Had my air filter box off today and the middle section of rubber hose actually sits hard up against the top of the n/side engine mount. So not rubbing on the gearbox, but the mount. So if anyone has one of our vans with a/c you may want to have a look at that section of hose behind battery, as it's a leak waiting to happen. When the garage re-installed that long hose, I got them to wrap a thick piece of rubber hose around the outside of it, so it's between the a/c hose and engine mount. It's held on with a couple of cable ties. Belt and braces!

Last edited by woodbine (2020-08-31 22:50:15)

woodbine · 2021-04-02 22:32:40

Well that lasted all of 7 months!!!!

Been running my ac on regular occasions to keep seals lubricated. Turned the ac on on Wednesday - nothing! Light comes on with switch, but nothing running at all. Pressed valve quickly under bonnet. Pressure in there, but whether it's enough I can't tell. Checked a few fuses.

Hmm. Here we go again! sad

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